Japanese target oil farm

Glenn239 said:
The tanks could have been badly knocked about, but to eliminate the yard facilities there would need to be uncontrolled fires. OTOH, space on Oahu was at a premium and no one was thinking about air raids, so it’s not at all unlikely that fire hazards were everywhere. The yard certainly would not have been prepared for an air attack.
Fact is, you don't need to actually do much damage to render the yard useless for heavies. Even simply knocking out the power station...:eek:
Glenn239 said:
The Pacific Fleet may have been using maybe 250,000 tons of oil each month for war operations. Since the tank farms are largely destroyed, most of this now has to come from California. The Pacific Fleet tankers therefore cannot even keep up with demand, leave alone replenish any eliminated stocks. The easiest way to square the circle is for the fleet to withdraw to California.
For the heavies, true. For the Sub Force, even a couple of tanker loads would be enough to keep them going; add a new facility at Midway, especially, & you're back at OTL capability, more/less. (Yes, the yard would still be useless, but major refits of subs were frequently done at Mare Is anyhow. OTL, I suspect that's because it was the yard was tied up with other work; TTL, the loss amounts to no difference.)
Glenn239 said:
All 20 aircraft lost in the 2nd wave were shot down at low level. So if a 3rd wave is made at low level over the harbor it might lose 20 aircraft, but if it is a high level attack over the harbor than losses might be negligible. Genda indicated there would be no more torpedo attacks, but I don't recollect him saying what he intended to do with his dive bombers).
The bigger question is, what are Nagumo's DDs doing all this time? Because they sure aren't swinging at anchor--& OTL, they were marginal for fuel to get back as it was.:eek: Keep them on station long enough to carry off a 3d wave, you abandon them, either off Hawaii or en route.:eek: IJN couldn't spare DDs. (Not that she was using them for anything really valuable, like protecting her trade...:rolleyes: No, she'd end up wasting them on stupid supply missions in the Solomons, instead.:rolleyes::confused:)
 
On the subject of Japanese attitudes I might raise the IJN's near-obsessive goal of a decisive battle….
Given the relative weakness of Japan in a long term contest with the United States, Japan’s desire for one massive winner-take-all clash is highly unsurprising.
For the heavies, true. For the Sub Force, even a couple of tanker loads would be enough to keep them going;
I can’t see any level of damage preventing the use of PH for submarine operations. About the only thing Nagumo could have done there was to actually dive bomb the submarines tied up at pier side, and even that would only keep each one hit out of action for a time – raise and repair.
 
The bigger question is, what are Nagumo's DDs doing all this time? Because they sure aren't swinging at anchor--& OTL, they were marginal for fuel to get back as it was. Keep them on station long enough to carry off a 3d wave, you abandon them, either off Hawaii or en route.

Marginal to get back as it was? 2nd CAR DIV's fuel situation was so favourable two weeks after Pearl Harbor that Yamaguchi's task force was able to make the approach to Wake at THIRTY knots for THIRTY hours - that's an incredible level of fuel burn, and then he proceeded to conduct air operations for THREE DAYS. I assure you, he did not scuttle his destroyers.


The log of the destoryer Akigumo (Pearl Harbor Papers) records the fueling operations:

Date.......Tons transferred
27-Nov...30
28-Nov*...30?
29-Nov*...30?
1-Dec......40
2-Dec......28
3-Dec...Fueling Impossible
4-Dec...Fueling Impossible
5-Dec......95
6-Dec.....10
7-Dec......20
9-Dec.....250
15-Dec...150

* - Nov 28/29 the amounts transferred are not recorded, assumed to be about 30 tons, from the overall general pattern of refuelings.

The destroyer was burning around 30 tons of oil per day cruising to Hawaii, judging from amount it took aboard each day. On the 5th, because the 4th and 3rd were stormy, Akigumo loads 95 tons, to make up for the two days fueling it had missed because of the storm. On the 6th and 7th, it takes on only 30 tons (not 60), and is therefore probably about 30 tons shy of a full load at the start of the attack run.

The Kagero Class carried roughly 500 tons of oil, so we can figure that Akigumo commenced the run to Pearl with at least 450 tons aboard. 48 hours later, it took on 250 tons, meaning that it was down to about 250 tons at that point. So as the strikes were landing around noon of the 7th, and prior to the 24kt/24hr run north, Kagero should have had aboard roughly 325-375 tons of oil (65%-75% capacity), which was plenty to continue operations even for another day, since it was burning roughly 125 tons per day in high speed ops, and should have had about 375 tons aboard.

Note also that Kido Butai had the ability to refuel destroyers from the carriers and battlecruisers if this proved necessary.
 
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Glenn239 said:
I can’t see any level of damage preventing the use of PH for submarine operations. About the only thing Nagumo could have done there was to actually dive bomb the submarines tied up at pier side, and even that would only keep each one hit out of action for a time – raise and repair.
I'd agree, except for "raise & repair". New construction was coming; ISTM unlikely a fleet boat would actually be raised. (Too little payback for the effort.)
 
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