Japanese Navy without Pacific War

A cash strapped Japan might sell aircraft to the UK. Would there be interest in also selling a few older destroyers for convoy duty?
 
But I presume that Yamato and Musashi will be finished later than OTL, in 1942/43?

Because of lack od steel during the war with Soviets (tanks becoming a priority)
 
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PS I would add
Not sure if it would really have to as the later war showed anybody with navel superiority could hold the narrow gaps effectively and its good defensive terrain, they might end up on a line Anju-Hamhung with the south under Japan?

Hmm, I think that Japanese thinking was that they obviously don't have too much left to throw on Soviets once they have free hands in Manchuria, so maybe even better independent Korea than Soviets on Tsushima Strait.
 
I don't think that Japan now has all that many aircrafts left, after the war.
But with trade deals with GB (and therefore US/DEI+) they can get effectively unlimited aluminium and alloys to build more and they could simply sell old training aircraft for well over market value as GB (and even US) is at full capacity, with a very sellers market.

Hmm, I think that Japanese thinking was that they obviously don't have too much left to throw on Soviets once they have free hands in Manchuria, so maybe even better independent Korea than Soviets on Tsushima Strait.
I would have thought they would at least try to retreat to defensive positions on the Korean peninsular and would be far to worried that independent Korea would become Chinese Korea within a generation...even if it doesn't go red?
 
an interesting idea.
With now Japanese forces in China American has no reason to cut of scrap iron and oil from japan.
Soviet help to communist in china and Korean might be the bigger concern for the Americans. I wonder how this will affect lead lease to Stalin in the future.
American aid to china should have no trouble supplying south china.
with the army in japan having more influence the Japanese might get better tank and anti tank weapons to fight the soviets. Maybe some thing like the panzer iv.
 
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I would say that army wouldn't have more influence in Japan. If anything, they would have less influence.

About Korea, I'm not sure. I really don't see their last resistance in Korea sucessful, no doubt that they will fight, but the outcome with 90% of Army shattered...
 
About Korea, I'm not sure. I really don't see their last resistance in Korea sucessful, no doubt that they will fight, but the outcome with 90% of Army shattered...
I'm not sure but Korea is quite mountainous and good defensive terrain all down a thin a peninsular, that can easily be flanked and counter attacked by the IJN so attacking down it would be very hard and potentially slow so time might well run out for the Soviets considering European threats emerging?
 
I'm not sure but Korea is quite mountainous and good defensive terrain all down a thin a peninsular, that can easily be flanked and counter attacked by the IJN so attacking down it would be very hard and potentially slow so time might well run out for the Soviets considering European threats emerging?

I agree. But to flank someone you need to have something to flank him with. If IJA was intact or even less severely trashed, that would be possible.
 
But I presume that Yamato and Musashi will be finished later than OTL, in 1942/43?

Because of lack od steel during the war with Soviets (tanks becoming a priority)


Also, I think that with northern part of Sakhalin in Japanese hands, Japan will cancel next two Yamato-class BBs, in favour of torpedo boats and destroyers, to protect Strait of Tartary ( only a few miles wide ).

Four Katori-class light cruisers could also face significant delay- at least a year. Following Agano-class ( four in OTL ) could even be canceled.

About destroyers, I think that last 6-7 of Kagero-class might get cancelled, because of need for steel for the Army. The rest, or at least 3-4 could face delays, at least 6 months, maybe even more. Following Yugumo-class could also face delays, and first ships might not be laid before at least mid-1941, maybe even 1942. Same thing for Akizuki-class.

Five small minelayers of Sokuten-class will probably be finished, and probably even more later. They can be useful to lay mines in Tartary Strait.

Otori-class torpedo boats might get additional units built, for service in Sakhalin, but also in narrow waters of Tsushima Strait.
 
James Ricker wrote:
That's why the engineers get paid the big bucks to think of solutions for these problems.
A vertical launched torpedo system could solve that problem.

You literally can't pay them enough unfortunately :) No there will be no "Vertically Launched Torpedo" system with un-guided era torpedoes.

You may see armored sponson's but to be honest, (despite how they play in "World of Warships") torpedoes as a primary weapon were on the way out by WWII.

Given the nature of the terrain the USSR has to traverse to invade Korea even a 'shattered' IJA is going to have an advantage, especially if the IJN can provide any kind of support. IF the IJA/IJN LOSE Korea let alone China they are both 'toast' back home as by this point Korea was popularly considered "part" of Japan. Worse they can't, (and won't" "trust" a demilitarization and would fully expect a Communist puppet state to be imposed within a year or two so that's not going to be acceptable. (And frankly none of the other "Capitalist" powers, US, UK, France, etc are going to support such an outcome) Russia won't get Korea and the Communist party wasn't that powerful pre-OTL-WWII.

Overall the civilian government which results is going to be a lot less military minded BUT they will be dealing with the aftermath of several decades of military over-reach and destructiveness in China specifically. (Ie; no matter who 'wins' the Civil War they will be gunning for Japan at some point for payback) And it was US support along with other "western" nations against the Communists that Japan's invasion and war threw into trouble so they won't be willing to accept a Communist takeover either. They will still flood the Nationalists with weapons, through Japan if Chang can find a plausible way of doing so.

Yamato and Musashi won't be completed but will be scrapped. (NO plans to fight the US/British battle line means no need for ships to fight that battle) And they will have been taught the lesson of tanks. Japan needs cruisers at this point and aircraft carriers to offset the loss of overseas forward basing. As noted though this is partially a blessing as a less militarized Japan can plausibly cut back on expenditures of high-value single items, (such as the afore mentioned super-battleships) in favor of more utilitarian weapons systems.

Which in itself feeds back into less concern by the US/UK/France over Japanese Naval power as it's been neutered to some extent. Which means those powers can now look to moving assets towards the more 'important' theaters of Europe instead of facing a 'two-front' war at sea. (Now how much that will make the IJN "think" about getting frisky is a question but considering neither the IJA or IJN will have a fraction of their "pre-war" power I suspect Japan will just sit back and let events play out instead of getting involved. Play their cards right and they can be seen as the 'lesser' of the post-war evils)

And despite not being as "Imperial" as before Japan has a lot of advanced technology they can now spend money on AND sell products to a more open rest of the world. (Yes I'm thinking the Luftwaffe might be facing British Zero's over London, why? :) )

Considering how much the USSR had to transfer to the East to defeat Japan the question becomes how much can they re-position before Hitler kicks in the door. (Keep in mind that Stalin was confident that despite how well Germany did in the West it would still be unable to invade before the end of 1941 or mid-1942 if at all. This is another reason I don't see the Russians leaving a lot of materials behind them, obsolete or not it's what Russia has at the moment which will be important)

Randy
 
About Korea, I see what you want to say, but I'm not sure would the Japan be able to keep South. Maybe Soviets would accept partition, but not as Japanese cilindar, rather as independent or "independent" country. Something like OTL division of Korea, with Japanese military bases in South and Soviet bases in North.


About Yamato, I think that construction of first two ships was too much advanced to be scrapped. But 2 or even 4 older Japanese BBs could be scrapped when they enter service.
 
Overall the civilian government which results is going to be a lot less military minded BUT they will be dealing with the aftermath of several decades of military over-reach and destructiveness in China specifically. (Ie; no matter who 'wins' the Civil War they will be gunning for Japan at some point for payback) And it was US support along with other "western" nations against the Communists that Japan's invasion and war threw into trouble so they won't be willing to accept a Communist takeover either. They will still flood the Nationalists with weapons, through Japan if Chang can find a plausible way of doing so.

I think the China Nationalist vs. Mao Communist issue is the biggest question mark issue from this thread. Without the common enemy of Japan, the Nationalist army is better trained and prepared to win the Chinese civil war plus the war will erupt years earlier.
 
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