Japanese American Alliance?

By the start of the 1900s the United States and Japanese Empire forms an alliance. How would this happen and what would be the impact of it? How would this effect both countries? What would be the overall impact? Maybe Japan and America form an alliance as a counter to the European powers? Maybe America gives Japan more of a free hand in Asia and support them even if the Europeans don’t? Basically besides for their current holds in the Pacific they leave most of the region for Japan to do as they wish while they focus on the Americas. Propaganda in America could depict the Co prosperity sphere as similar to the Monroe Doctrine.
 
Until Japan started their expansion in China proper they got along with the US mostly just fine. Outside some sternly worded letters, the US never seemed to care overmuch about Japanese expansion until they turned China into their personal quagmire. Relations soured when the US tried to force Japanese withdraw from China with economic sanctions. If Japan stays out of China after WWI (or approaches the situation differently) then they'd be a strong ally for the US against communism further into the century, which the Japanese government in the 20's and 30's hated with a McCarthy-esque passion. Much of Japan's expansion in China was domestically portrayed as a fight against communism.

As a relevant note, Japan and Britain got along great with Britain actually training much of the early Japanese navy's officer class. And don't forget that Japan was on the Entente's side in WWI.

I doubt the US would directly ally with Japan before the 1920s or 30s at the very earliest. In this period the US is still wildly isolationist and mostly didn't care about balances of power and even a friendly Japan would still have politics that were unpopular in the US. Also, now that I think about it I'm not sure that the US was allies with anybody before WWI.

I think a US-Imperial Japan alliance aimed at containing communism, China, and Russia in East Asia is perfectly reasonable a little later in the century if Japan can keep themselves from making a mess of China, forcing the US to act and impose sanctions.
 
By the start of the 1900s the United States and Japanese Empire forms an alliance. How would this happen and what would be the impact of it? How would this effect both countries? What would be the overall impact? Maybe Japan and America form an alliance as a counter to the European powers? Maybe America gives Japan more of a free hand in Asia and support them even if the Europeans don’t? Basically besides for their current holds in the Pacific they leave most of the region for Japan to do as they wish while they focus on the Americas. Propaganda in America could depict the Co prosperity sphere as similar to the Monroe Doctrine.

China is stronger and Russian backed?

The British Empire is still enjoying its century of glorious isolation (although it is worried over such an Alliance changing the great game)

This stronger China threatens to destabilise the region and fearing the Tiger, the Eagle and the Dragon pair up
 
A future TL I am toying with (it will be massive, like one of johnboy's TLs) is a Mahan vs. Mackinder TL - the great maritime powers of the US, Great Britain, and Japan vs. Germany, Russia, and China.
 
China not only emerges from the warlord era earlier and much stronger, but also goes fascist ("neolegalist"?). This startles Japan, Britain, and the USA, and they ultimately decide to put their differences aside to fight this new threat.
 

SsgtC

Banned
A future TL I am toying with (it will be massive, like one of johnboy's TLs) is a Mahan vs. Mackinder TL - the great maritime powers of the US, Great Britain, and Japan vs. Germany, Russia, and China.
Off topic, but considering the quality of your Indian Ocean TL, I would eagerly read this.
 
... Basically besides for their current holds in the Pacific they leave most of the region for Japan to do as they wish while they focus on the Americas. Propaganda in America could depict the Co prosperity sphere as similar to the Monroe Doctrine.

Not a expert here, but some folks accuse TR Roosevelt of attempting exactly this.
 
By the start of the 1900s the United States and Japanese Empire forms an alliance. How would this happen and what would be the impact of it? How would this effect both countries? What would be the overall impact? Maybe Japan and America form an alliance as a counter to the European powers? Maybe America gives Japan more of a free hand in Asia and support them even if the Europeans don’t? Basically besides for their current holds in the Pacific they leave most of the region for Japan to do as they wish while they focus on the Americas. Propaganda in America could depict the Co prosperity sphere as similar to the Monroe Doctrine.
I actually plan on incorporating that into my own TL, though in the late 40s early 50s. Does anyone happen to know what would be major points of contention if say the countries in East Asia weren't American friendly and no invasion of China?
 
By the start of the 1900s the United States and Japanese Empire forms an alliance.

An actual alliance (as opposed to cooperation with other countries for specific purposes) between the US and any other nation was simply out of the question for the US in the early twentieth century. The tradition was too strong against it.

"Even after an American army of 2 million men was fighting alongside the French and the British on the western front, Wilson refused to refer to them as allies, insisting instead on the term 'associated powers'..." https://books.google.com/books?id=ZY8aErCU9U8C&pg=PA225
 
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A future TL I am toying with (it will be massive, like one of johnboy's TLs) is a Mahan vs. Mackinder TL - the great maritime powers of the US, Great Britain, and Japan vs. Germany, Russia, and China.
China not only emerges from the warlord era earlier and much stronger, but also goes fascist ("neolegalist"?). This startles Japan, Britain, and the USA, and they ultimately decide to put their differences aside to fight this new threat.

From an economic perspective Japan was much more closely tied to the US and Britain than they are to Germany, Russia, or China. In at TL with a stronger China, Japan would be an excellent ally for the US.
 
An actual alliance (as opposed to cooperation with other countries for specific purposes) between the US and any other nation was simply out of the question for the US in the early twentieth century. The tradition was too strong against it.

"Even after an American army of 2 million men was fighting alongside the French and the British on the western front, Wilson refused to refer to them as allies, insisting instead on the term 'associated powers'..." https://books.google.com/books?id=ZY8aErCU9U8C&pg=PA225

Would that not be more indicitive of Wilson's 'traditions' rather then the USA's - Britain after all had also undergone a near Century of Splendid isolation but broke with that tradition only a few years before WW1
 
If Japan can abandon their radical policy.There have chance to make a Anticolonial Alliance with Amecican in 1920s.
 
Would that not be more indicitive of Wilson's 'traditions' rather then the USA's - Britain after all had also undergone a near Century of Splendid isolation but broke with that tradition only a few years before WW1

There was nothing in British history, though, which carried the fame and force of Washington's Farewell Address or Jefferson's "peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." (In fact, many Americans mixed them up and thought it was Washington who originated the phrase "entangling alliances.") And there is obviously a difference between being twenty miles from the Continent and over three thousand miles.

Indeed, not only the opponents of war in 1917 but some of its supporters made clear that they were not repudiating the traditional hostility to alliances. Senator Borah of Idaho said there could be "but one sufficient reason for committing this country to war, and that is the honor and security of our own people." He joined no crusade, he went on, "I seek or accept no alliances; I obligate this Government to no other power. I make war alone for my countrymen and their rights." https://archive.org/details/growthofamerican00inleop/page/334

Given this hostility to America's joining in alliances it is no wonder that Wilson did not want to use that word--and indeed argued that his proposed League would be a replacement for the traditional alliance system.
 
How do you get a China that is willing to throw its weight around, what POD are you considering using?
As i stated before in other threads, i'd suggest having the Zhili Clique be successful in unifying the Central China plain, Manchuria, and then the entirety of China, with generalissimo Wu Peifu becoming its fascist dictator-for-life and breaking with US and British interests after China becomes self-sufficient.
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
China not only emerges from the warlord era earlier and much stronger, but also goes fascist ("neolegalist"?). This startles Japan, Britain, and the USA, and they ultimately decide to put their differences aside to fight this new threat.
China is stronger and Russian backed?

The British Empire is still enjoying its century of glorious isolation (although it is worried over such an Alliance changing the great game)

This stronger China threatens to destabilise the region and fearing the Tiger, the Eagle and the Dragon pair up
Japan was a maritime power, and was thus a threat to American influence in the Pacific. It would take generations for China to build up a navy powerful enough to challenge the United States, so it was not a threat. Chiang’s KMT had many quasi-fascist tendencies, but that never got in the way of Sino-American relations. If conflict breaks out between China and Japan (and maybe Britain) then the United States is going to be angry at the Japanese for interfering with American trade with China, not the Chinese.
 

SsgtC

Banned
Japan was a maritime power, and was thus a threat to American influence in the Pacific. It would take generations for China to build up a navy powerful enough to challenge the United States, so it was not a threat. Chiang’s KMT had many quasi-fascist tendencies, but that never got in the way of Sino-American relations. If conflict breaks out between China and Japan (and maybe Britain) then the United States is going to be angry at the Japanese for interfering with American trade with China, not the Chinese.
Pretty much this. The only way the US doesn't get pissed at Japan for fucking up their China trade, is if, for whatever reason, the US doesn't have much China trade. Japan would have to be the main trading partner in the Pacific for the US to not back China.

Maybe this happens with either a nuetral US in WWI or a CP aligned US. You need to turn the US and UK into adversaries in the Pacific with the US deciding an alliance with Japan is in their interests.
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
Pretty much this. The only way the US doesn't get pissed at Japan for fucking up their China trade, is if, for whatever reason, the US doesn't have much China trade. Japan would have to be the main trading partner in the Pacific for the US to not back China.

Maybe this happens with either a nuetral US in WWI or a CP aligned US. You need to turn the US and UK into adversaries in the Pacific with the US deciding an alliance with Japan is in their interests.
That would require the Anglo-Japanese alliance to be butterflied away though. I think you would need a dramatically different global alignment and balance of power from the OTL Entente and Central Powers alliances, because I don’t think Japan would want to oppose France, Britain, and Russia at the same time.
 

SsgtC

Banned
That would require the Anglo-Japanese alliance to be butterflied away though. I think you would need a dramatically different global alignment and balance of power from the OTL Entente and Central Powers alliances, because I don’t think Japan would want to oppose France, Britain, and Russia at the same time.
You would need to do that. I think you need Japan to decide they really don't want to involve themselves with the European powers (other than their fight against Russia) and adopt an isolationist position similar the the United States'. Then I could see the US and Japan finding mutual cause and agreeing to basically keep the rest of the world out of their areas. Start slow, where they aren't exactly friends, but they're not enemies either. Then over time, they slowly find themselves backing each other more and more policy wise. Both wanting to keep Europe the fuck out of their spheres of influence. And eventually they sign an alliance to back each other in that shared goal.
 
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