Japan without MacArthur

If MacArthur had been killed pre Japanese surrender.
?Who would take his place in the reconstruction of Japan, and how would this change post war Japan?
 

Bearcat

Banned
If MacArthur had been killed pre Japanese surrender.
?Who would take his place in the reconstruction of Japan, and how would this change post war Japan?

Not sure anyone can quite replace him.

Who would get the job?

Eisenhower? Stimson? Nimitz?

?
 

Hendryk

Banned
Eisenhower? Stimson? Nimitz?
How about Marshall? That way he doesn't get involved in the Chinese civil war, trying to broker a ceasefire between the Nationalists and the Communists, and perchance Jiang actually manages to defeat Mao's forces. Or not, but it's worth a shot.
 
My guess would be Nimitz, as the next senior millitary man in theater.

Whether or not he could have done what Doug pulled off is subject to speculation.

Maybe, but it's a big maybe.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
How about Marshall? That way he doesn't get involved in the Chinese civil war, trying to broker a ceasefire between the Nationalists and the Communists, and perchance Jiang actually manages to defeat Mao's forces.

Actually, the main reason the Nationalists lost the Chinese Civil War was because of Chiang's Manchurian gambit, something which Marshall told him not to do.
 

Hendryk

Banned
Actually, the main reason the Nationalists lost the Chinese Civil War was because of Chiang's Manchurian gambit, something which Marshall told him not to do.
He had one last chance of winning it by taking Harbin. A bit of a long shot, I'll admit, since even then he'd have to mop up the countryside and avoid getting his forces surrounded in the cities. But still, it would have been interesting to see how that would have played out--it's not like the Nationalists could lose even more badly than they did in OTL, short of losing Taiwan as well. Anyway, this is off-topic.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
He had one last chance of winning it by taking Harbin. A bit of a long shot, I'll admit, since even then he'd have to mop up the countryside and avoid getting his forces surrounded in the cities. But still, it would have been interesting to see how that would have played out--it's not like the Nationalists could lose even more badly than they did in OTL, short of losing Taiwan as well. Anyway, this is off-topic.

You are, of course, right.

Anyhoo, I think that a Japanese occupation without MacArthur would have been more like an actual military occupation. By this I mean that MacArthur was sensitive to Japanese culture and institutions in ways that other potential SCAPs Japan were not. For example, many advocated deposing Hirohito and including members of the Imperial Family in war crimes trials, both of which MacArthur argued strongly against. Some of the more loopy people actually advocated the dismantling of Japanese culture, which they viewed as a "design for death" (in the words of Dr. Seuss).

So you probably would have seen a harsher occupation and more resentment from the Japanese, which could prove ugly down the line.
 
Last edited:
How about Marshall? That way he doesn't get involved in the Chinese civil war, trying to broker a ceasefire between the Nationalists and the Communists, and perchance Jiang actually manages to defeat Mao's forces. Or not, but it's worth a shot.
Hmm... that's a rather different Marshall Plan, then :D
You are, of course, right [re: Jiang's last chance].

Anyhoo, I think that a Japanese occupation without MacArthur would have been more like an actual military occupation. By this I mean that MacArthur was sensitive to Japanese culture and institutions in ways that other potential SCAPs Japan were not. For example, many advocated deposing Hirohito and including members of the Imperial Family in war crimes trials, both of which MacArthur argued strongly against. Some of the more loopy people actually advocated the dismantling of Japanese culture, which they viewed as a "design for death" (in the words of Dr. Seuss).

So you probably would have seen a harsher occupation and more resentment from the Japanese, which could prove ugly down the line.
Hmm, hadn't thought of MacArthur as a nice guy, by any stratch... sounds like you know more about it than me, though, which wouldn't be hard.
 

The Sandman

Banned
You are, of course, right.

Anyhoo, I think that a Japanese occupation without MacArthur would have been more like an actual military occupation. By this I mean that MacArthur was sensitive to Japanese culture and institutions in ways that other potential SCAPs Japan were not. For example, many advocated deposing Hirohito and including members of the Imperial Family in war crimes trials, both of which MacArthur argued strongly against. Some of the more loopy people actually advocated the dismantling of Japanese culture, which they viewed as a "design for death" (in the words of Dr. Seuss).

So you probably would have seen a harsher occupation and more resentment from the Japanese, which could prove ugly down the line.

Actually, the Japanese fully expected that Hirohito would at minimum be forced to abdicate, and both he and the Imperial family were preparing for that eventuality. The only reason why that didn't happen, more or less, was that MacArthur decided he liked the man and kept him on.

And a more thorough military occupation might have been a good thing, in the sense that we could have avoided the "reverse-course" of 1947-48 where we basically handed Japan back over the the rightist government that we'd just unseated in order to ensure that the Japanese left wouldn't be able to gain power.
 

The Sandman

Banned
It also would have meant that the imperial family is going to the gallows, not the palace.

Hirohito, probably. Not the entire rest of the Imperial Family, though; there were quite a few who simply weren't significant enough to have been involved in Japanese atrocities.

With any luck, though, the Imperial Household Agency gets purged along with the rest of the government. And in TTL the purge of the Japanese right-wing from power sticks, with positive results for the political direction of postwar Japan.
 

Xen

Banned
Hirohito, probably. Not the entire rest of the Imperial Family, though; there were quite a few who simply weren't significant enough to have been involved in Japanese atrocities.

With any luck, though, the Imperial Household Agency gets purged along with the rest of the government. And in TTL the purge of the Japanese right-wing from power sticks, with positive results for the political direction of postwar Japan.

I don't think Hirohito would have gone to the gallows personally, but forced to live his life in exile in the most humble surroundings, something like monkhood is probable. Actually what I find more probable, if he finds out he is going to be forced to abdicate, hed likely commit ritual suitcide to keep his honor. With Hirohito dead, his family living in exile (perhaps on Iwo Jima or some other island like that) the Republic of Japan would be established in the Empire's place.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Actually, the Japanese fully expected that Hirohito would at minimum be forced to abdicate

Really? I've never heard that. Actually, I've only ever read that the Privy Council urged/pressured Hirohito to step down, and he certainly didn't relish the prospect at all. I don't believe ordinary Japanese thought he would be gotten rid of. Where did you hear this?
 
I don't think Hirohito would have gone to the gallows personally, but forced to live his life in exile in the most humble surroundings, something like monkhood is probable. Actually what I find more probable, if he finds out he is going to be forced to abdicate, hed likely commit ritual suitcide to keep his honor. With Hirohito dead, his family living in exile (perhaps on Iwo Jima or some other island like that) the Republic of Japan would be established in the Empire's place.
Temporarily. The Japanese would really hate that idea, and I suspect that enough of them would be stubborn enough about it to make Northern Ireland look tame.

EDIT: To clarify, it would be at least as bad as Northern Ireland would have been, if the British had made being a Catholic illegal at the height of the IRA's power.
 
Last edited:
Top