Japan vs Russia /soviets

Mrstrategy

Banned
What if japan declare war on the soviets instead of the allies would germany still be defeated? ,would the British help the Russians ?
 

thorr97

Banned
Hmmm.....

Let's say they jump in against the Soviets immediately after Barbarossa kicks off. And do so after working a deal with the Brits, the US and the Dutch that in exchange for easing off on the Chinese and going after the Reds, they'd keep supplying Japan with all the oil it could buy. A deal which loosed the crushing economic pressure the Westerners had brought to bear on Japan for its atrocities in China.

So, the Japanese gear up and grab Vladivostok as well as raid a bunch of points along the Trans-Siberian. Doing that would deny any supplies from the US reaching the USSR via the Pacific and would impede any reinforcements being shipped east from Moscow. If the Japanese could keep that up long enough they'd starve the Soviet Far Eastern forces and thus be able to take chunks of Siberia. So long as the Soviets were distracted with the Nazis they could hold those chunks.

It'd put the Russians in a helluva pinch come winter.
 
No Japan tried that for the border incidents in 1939 and got beaten hard, by 1941 Japan has bigger issues than a pointless war against the Soviets or Russia, where there are few resources.
 

ben0628

Banned
Japan cannot beat the Soviets in Siberia. What they CAN do is tie down Soviet troops and prevent lend lease from reaching Russian ports (Russian lend lease from the Pacific I believe was mostly food supplies). In Manchuria all they have to do is maintain pressure and let the Germans do all the dirty work and eventually Germany would probably capture Moscow and push the Russians east of the Urals.

That being said there is no benefit for Japan to attack Russia.
 

gaijin

Banned
Japan cannot beat the Soviets in Siberia. What they CAN do is tie down Soviet troops and prevent lend lease from reaching Russian ports (Russian lend lease from the Pacific I believe was mostly food supplies). In Manchuria all they have to do is maintain pressure and let the Germans do all the dirty work and eventually Germany would probably capture Moscow and push the Russians east of the Urals.

That being said there is no benefit for Japan to attack Russia.

In OTL lend lease came in on American ships flagged as Soviet. This prevented the Japanese from attacking them. The Japanese were very much not interested in fighting the Americans and the Russians at the same time.

In this scenario said lend lease comes in on American ships flying the American flag. If they try to stop them, shit hits the fan.
 

thorr97

Banned
ben0628 & all,

The "hook" for this would be a deal the Japanese made with the UK and US, among others, that eased those sanctions in return for the Japanese putting the squeeze on the Soviets. The Reds were not an ally of Britain at this time. And a POD would be the UK's recognizing the benefit of having the Nazis and the Communists go after each other unabated while the Free World used the time gained to rearm itself and then take on the weakened survivor of the Nazi vs Communist fighting.

To that end, the Japanese would have to agree to restrain their efforts in warring on China and focus on building up their Manchuko holdings instead. In return, the trade and oil would flow freely thus keeping the Japanese economy afloat and that, in turn, would keep the Japanese militarists in power.

No, the Japanese could not hope to take on the full fury of the Red Army and, no, there's damn all in terms of resources available at the time in the Soviet Far East that would justify a Japanese invasion otherwise (Oh, look! They've got lots of trees in Siberia! Let's seize them and we'll be rich!) But, that's not the point of the exercise.

Instead, it's keeping their regime in charge by getting out from under the Westerner's economic sanctions without going to war with the UK and US. The time gained would also allow the Japanese to further modernize their military and secure their holdings on the mainland. This as well as developing closer ties to the US and UK.
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Monthly Donor
the problem with your proposed deal, oh Asgardian one, is that such an anti-Soviet stance inherent in making a deal with the Japanese would help the Germans by hurting the Russians. And the last thing the British, Dutch or Americans wanted to do in 1941 was help the Germans.
 

Mrstrategy

Banned
Maybe have the generals remove hitler and make peace keeping all the Germans parts they capture plus Russia land
 
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