Japan Joins in the Scramble for Africa

So, if they develop too later to be a part of the scramble is there anything or anyway the Japs could or would barter gains in other areas to gain access to African colonies. Trading Asian interests or territories for African. I think they made a lot of gains after 1905. Germans might have been interested in some trades but might be nulled by a Japan aligned to the UK rather than anyone else. Still though ... if the offer is right, they might be able to nab something later on after the scramble is over.
Again the primary issue is making the Japanese want any African holdings. The PoD somehow has to create a situation where Imperial Japan has a vested interest in acquiring African colonies. I would note, however, that even had such a desire existed, Japan wouldn't trade Asian holdings/interests for African ones, as their Asian interests have a strategic value that African holdings aren't going to replace.
 
Again the primary issue is making the Japanese want any African holdings. The PoD somehow has to create a situation where Imperial Japan has a vested interest in acquiring African colonies. I would note, however, that even had such a desire existed, Japan wouldn't trade Asian holdings/interests for African ones, as their Asian interests have a strategic value that African holdings aren't going to replace.
Something involving East Indies trading companies? Perhaps some sort of very lucrative Japanese-African trade involving the EIC or VOC or someone acting as a middleman during the late Tokugawa becomes vital to Japanese trade, and after the Restoration there's some impetus for drect Japanese control of some portion of the source.

Something like that, maybe.
 
Even then, still not likely. Japan would be much more concerned with the colonial prospects in its own backyard (Korea, China, etc.). Japan needs a good reason to even want African holdings before its likely to seek any.

This is a good point. Why on earth should Japan try to gain useless African territory when China and Korea are right there? It doesn't make any sense.
 
Maybe if some nation with extensive African holdings decided to give a piece to Japan as a gift, a gesture for something...

I'm thinking for example in a TL with a Turkish victory in the Russo-Turkish War of 1878 - The Ottomans industrialize and modernize at a faster rate than IOTL and as a result they are stronger, but their Egyptian vassals have colonized a strip of land in Eritrea they don't really want...

Meanwhile Japan modernizes as in OTL but with a little twist: she considers the Ottomans an example for her (that of a non Christian nation adopting western knowledge successfully, as well as a champion against Japan's main boogeyman, Czarist Russia) and some deal of Turkophilia expands over Japan. Japan inmediately pushes for closer Turko-Japanese relations and eventually they sign several economic and military agreements.

At some point, instead of abandoning/selling Eritrea to the Italians, the Ottoman Sultan gives it as a gift to Japan. Something like "Look, you are doing a great work at becoming a power, but to achieve that you need colonies... here's one" or "You will always have an open door to the Red Sea - I'm giving you a key".
 
Something involving East Indies trading companies? Perhaps some sort of very lucrative Japanese-African trade involving the EIC or VOC or someone acting as a middleman during the late Tokugawa becomes vital to Japanese trade, and after the Restoration there's some impetus for drect Japanese control of some portion of the source.

Something like that, maybe.

The VOC in the late Tokugawa era (I'm assuming that its somewhere in the late 1700-1800) was in no position to mediate anything. It was in the final throes, suffering from the 4th English-Dutch War (which destroyed most of its fleet - a pretty big stick for negotiating) and was financially wrecked, because of the War and corruption. Anyway, it was dead by 1800. I don't think Japan is quite ready to open its isolation just yet.

But the EIC might be able to do this.

IIRC Japanese imperialistic ambitions in its early stages was to secure Japan. That's why Taiwan and Korea were invaded - they had very little economic value. So we need to find a way to somehow change this. Maybe, as Ofaloaf said, something regarding economy.

Just my 2 cents...
 
Maybe if some nation with extensive African holdings decided to give a piece to Japan as a gift, a gesture for something...

I'm thinking for example in a TL with a Turkish victory in the Russo-Turkish War of 1878 - The Ottomans industrialize and modernize at a faster rate than IOTL and as a result they are stronger, but their Egyptian vassals have colonized a strip of land in Eritrea they don't really want...

Meanwhile Japan modernizes as in OTL but with a little twist: she considers the Ottomans an example for her (that of a non Christian nation adopting western knowledge successfully, as well as a champion against Japan's main boogeyman, Czarist Russia) and some deal of Turkophilia expands over Japan. Japan inmediately pushes for closer Turko-Japanese relations and eventually they sign several economic and military agreements.

At some point, instead of abandoning/selling Eritrea to the Italians, the Ottoman Sultan gives it as a gift to Japan. Something like "Look, you are doing a great work at becoming a power, but to achieve that you need colonies... here's one" or "You will always have an open door to the Red Sea - I'm giving you a key".

Firstable, you're not going to see Ottoman Empire that wouldn't want Eritrea. If anything, making the whole Red Sea their own lake would be in the very interest of the empire when it appears they are in the position to consider it affordable.

Secondable, just why the hell would Japan want a colony in Africa ?

I got one thing to throw into this thread though. While that way Eritrea will absolutely going to be absorbed by the Ottoman Empire, Italy would still going to eye on Somalia though (or the rest of Somalia that isn't Ottoman already, to be presice). Maybe that from there, Italy would attempt to conquer Ethiopia. But their plan just doesn't go as they've planned, and they find themselves pissing off just everyone in their attempt to colonize Ethiopia. And apparently Japan finds itself a chance, sending off a genius diplomat to handle the situation. And maybe somehow in the Ottoman Empire there emerges also a Japanophille diplomatically competent figure jumping off to help Japan. Somehow, they win in their diplomatic struggle against British intention to make Italian Somalia their protectorate and it got passed to Japan instead.

Or at least, some ports....

But really, as much as how cool that will be, what real use will there be of such for Japan ?
 
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Japan was still very much a country that Europeans invested in rather than a investor itself. It wasn't yet a fully developed country and part of the greater world so it didn't really get hit by the effects of the depression hard enough to do this.
You'd need to have Japan developed and tied into the world economy earlier or put some ridiculously stupid people in charge who decide conquering bits of Africa would be a good idea
 
I'm not really seriously suggesting the following, so please don't attack me for them, but some ideas come to mind

- WW1, if Japan sides with the CP and they win, then the Somali Sultanates are NOT Italian colonies, they are Italian PROTECTORATES - they were not converted into colonies until the later 1920s with some rather brutal wars nobody bothers to remember. Maybe Japan gets some sort of sphere of influence over them ?

- Mozambique was a patchwork colony of other holdings, and it wasn't until the shock of German invasion in WW1 that Portugal really sorted this out. The SAR (Transvaal) was building a rail-line to a S Mozambique city, and if it avoids war with Britain then maybe we could look to a Japanese trading position at this city? Alternatively, some sort of turn of the century European war, maybe from Fashoda or growing out of the Boer War sees Britain losing, and the SAR looking for support for itself, and its exports

- a Franco-Japanese clash, maybe over Formosa, in the 1880s say, leading to an aggressive anti-French policy on behalf of Japan and support for the royal court of Madagascar against France

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Firstable, you're not going to see Ottoman Empire that wouldn't want Eritrea.

Apparently OTL Ottoman Empire didn't.

If anything, making the whole Red Sea their own lake would be in the very interest of the empire when it appears they are in the position to consider it affordable.

Giving a pair of ports to a friendly state doesn't hurt that.

Secondable, just why the hell would Japan want a colony in Africa ?

Did the GDR need a rock near Cuba's coast? It still received one in OTL.

But really, as much as how cool that will be, what real use will there be of such for Japan ?

Somehow, in my mind, it would give more life to trade between Japan and the Ottoman Empire.
 
1) Apparently OTL Ottoman Empire didn't.


2) Did the GDR need a rock near Cuba's coast? It still received one in OTL.

1) Because IOTL they couldn't afford it. But you were talking about Ottoman winning 1877-78, not ?

2) Okay, that's one news for me....


But really, it is seriously doubtful that Japan would want any of Africa before they can establish themselves in SE Asia first.
 
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