Japan Invasion

The modern Japanese would consider the eventual ejection of the Mongol rulers and reinstatement of the 'God Emperor' a critical point in their history. The ruling fmilies of Japan post Mogols would be very different than those before, even if they claimed the same lineage & names.
 
speaking 1274 invasion or 1281 invasion?

If the first one was a success (much more likely since Japan was highly unprepared, suffering from acute lack of military know-how, given that the last military operations was some 50 years back), Buddhism (specially Zen) and the code of Bushido wouldn't have the long term influence (honorable 1-1 combat doesn't fit well with continental zergrush)

Second one would probably be a bit trickier to win and keep, since by that point Japan had been in period of near-permanent alert and training their local forces, so it would probably be a hotbed of revolts, and certain parts of Bushido would probably be watered out with a more Shinobi way of life, focusing on unorthodox warfare with covert operations and assassination of enemy leaders.

Nevertheless ... a Japanese loss in either of those invasions would be a massive hit on their collective psyche, since they would be denied their belief that Japan couldn't be defeated (which in turn was a significent part of their imperialistic actions up though 1900's)
 
Zerg rush doesn't really fit "successful Mongol invasion" either.

And I'm not sure it would be a terribly severe blow - in the long run, that is - to the Japanese psyche to have lost to the Mongols, depending on how severe that is.

"Kubulai extracts tribute from Japan." is much different than "Kubulai razes holy sites left and right and only stops when his thirst for blood is slaked." kind of conquest is another thing entirely.

Speaking in Kubulai's name as the ruler, although he won't be along on either invasion (almost certainly).
 
Given that Japan, specially doing the imperial period, had the state of mind that noone had ever defeated them (managed to curb their succes at most), it would, at least in some way have an effect on their psyche ... prehaps not enough to actually change something on a Macro level, but...
 
Given that Japan, specially doing the imperial period, had the state of mind that noone had ever defeated them (managed to curb their succes at most), it would, at least in some way have an effect on their psyche ... prehaps not enough to actually change something on a Macro level, but...

I don't see why it would make that much difference. I mean, the OTL claim is that the Mongols were defeated not by the awesomeness of Japan but by the (loosely translated) favor of the Gods. So assuming Japan still develops similarly in general, the main thing I can think is less in regards to them being more hesitant in their actions when they believed they were capable of winning (Korea, say) and more that they wouldn't believe that they'd be saved from impossible odds.

But I think the impacts of the invasion itself are going to have far more an impact than the bare fact of having been defeated.
 
Not saying it won't ... not anyway near ... just saying that this would be another part which would have an impact
 
Not saying it won't ... not anyway near ... just saying that this would be another part which would have an impact

How?

Because I'm completely at a loss as to how "we were defeated once" is somehow going to mean anything measurable by even say, 1600, let alone 1900.
 
don't think it would be seen as a defeat. japanese geography being what it is you would likely get hold outs in some places and then when the Mongols eventually leave it will be painted as japanese endurance under even the most trying of conditions- the old gamen spirit at work.

but a minor point. the effects would b interesting
 
speaking 1274 invasion or 1281 invasion?

If the first one was a success (much more likely since Japan was highly unprepared, suffering from acute lack of military know-how, given that the last military operations was some 50 years back), Buddhism (specially Zen) and the code of Bushido wouldn't have the long term influence (honorable 1-1 combat doesn't fit well with continental zergrush)

Actually, the Mongols were very supportive of Buddhism, it's just that they spread Tibetan Mahayana Buddhism rather than the Zen flavor.
 
Actually, the Mongols were very supportive of Buddhism, it's just that they spread Tibetan Mahayana Buddhism rather than the Zen flavor.

Actually, Mongols was as a 'nation' disinterested in a religion largely considering it people's own choice. They had pretty much every flavor of religion within their ranks. Tengri, several flavors of Christianity (Nestorian, Orthodox and Catholic), Taoism, Buddhism and Islam was all common religions in the Mongol Successor states (although Kublai Khan didn't like the Taoist and had several clashes with them), and wasn't actively proselytizing religious beliefs ...

Sure, if they got a solid foothold in Japan (most likely if the first invasion succeded i'd guess) certain areas and castes would lean towards Mahayana Buddhism, but by and large i'd believe the Mongols would let them keep practicing Shinto if that was what they wanted.
 
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