Japan intervenes (to a higher degree) during the Russian Civil War

So according to the infallible Wikipedia, goddess of ultimate and immutable truth, Japan was in the stages of planning strategy for intervening in Siberia on behalf of the Tsarists--with over 70,000 troops--when U.S. strategists were horrified at such a large number of Japanese soldiers running roughshod over Siberia compelled them to scale back the size of their contingent. Japan did send 12,000 soldiers to Siberia in our world, under their own discrete command and not under the auspice of the allied coalition, but they produced little in terms of results.
My knowledge of the period is horribly incomplete (as I'm sure you've noticed by now), so I'd like to wonder what would have happened: what if Japan had simply ignored U.S. entreaties to downsize their force and decided to go ahead with landing a force of 70,000 men? Would they assist the Whites or would they simply go on a spree of subjugating eastern Russia? Is this even possible? What would the political ramifications of such an action be?
 

wormyguy

Banned
Whatever the case, if Japan manages to install a permanent puppet in Siberia/Primorsk, the Russians are gonna be coming back hard about 30 years later.
 
Japan was in the stages of planning strategy for intervening in Siberia on behalf of the Tsarists--with over 70,000 troops--when U.S. strategists were horrified at such a large number of Japanese soldiers running roughshod over Siberia compelled them to scale back the size of their contingent. Japan did send 12,000 soldiers to Siberia in our world, under their own discrete command and not under the auspice of the allied coalition, but they produced little in terms of results.
In Fact it was the US that asked [begged?] Japan to send the troops in the first place.
The Japanese Diet in a narrow Vote approved sending 7.000 troops to help the Czech Legion escape from Siberia.
The Military then took this Authorization and send the 70.000 troops to Siberia.
 
I don't know if guarantees a Soviet Russia roaring back across the steppes with their sights set on the Pacific. If they can secure a victory for the Whites in the Civil War, the Tsarist regime would probably be too concerned with consolidating what territory they can instead of attempting to launch another war with Japan for access to the Pacific--at least in the short run. If the Japanese manage to establish a successful puppet state above Korea, then it probably will precipitate a war between the Russians and Japanese, but one which will not take place until the thirties at the earliest. I'm primarily curious if the increased Japanese presence will assist the Tsarists or if they'll just worry about their own priorities in the region.
 
In Fact it was the US that asked [begged?] Japan to send the troops in the first place.
The Japanese Diet in a narrow Vote approved sending 7.000 troops to help the Czech Legion escape from Siberia.
The Military then took this Authorization and send the 70.000 troops to Siberia.

Oh, okay. I wonder if that means that Japanese-US relations remain (relatively) stable during this period . . .
 
There was a thread sort of like this one not too long ago.

Anyway, Japan was divided about getting involved in the Russian Far East. The PM of Japan did not want to get involved while some military did. In the end the US invitation resolved it.

Anyway found an old newspaper article from that time period. And it mentions
Franco-Japanese Conspiracy
Seems there had been a Secret Treaty between Japan and the non-communist Russians concerning the Far East Republic. While some contend that the treaty was fake others say it was not. Treaty called for Japan to help the non-communist forces with military supplies in return the Japanese would get mineral and other resource concessions. The French were thought to also be involved.

This will take you to the news article which shows the text of the supposed treaty:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9D04E7D91030EE3ABC4C53DFB7668389639EDE

So if that treaty was for real then it shows the Japanese did want to have a greater role in the Russian Far East especially if they would profit from it.
 
Hell even if Japan sends 70’000 Troops Far-Eastern Siberia is on the ass end of nowhere in the Russian civil war it was far less populated than it was 20 later or even today, Japan captures the port of Vladvostok then what?

The Whites in western Siberia and European Russia still lose Cenral Asia will still be re-conquered by the Red Army then you’d have hundreds of thousands of troops ready to re-take the land Japan had captured the Soviets aren’t going to give up their Pacific coast ports that’s for sure.

Whatever Japan takes they wont keep for long...
 
Would they? I mean, the Soviets? Remember, everyone thought that the Soviets would steamroll the Poles in the twenties. I'm still wondering if the seventy thousand Japanese troops can rescue the Czech Legion and bring some sort of Tsarist victory, which will probably lead to the political fragmentation of Siberia and the temporary destabilization ruin of Russia. And once the Tsarists do consolidate what they have and the Japanese have a puppet state in their former territory, if they come roaring back with the same sort of vigor with which they attacked Poland in the early twenties, then who knows who will win? Russia has numbers, sure, but that didn't do them much good in the Great War or against the Poles--and the Japanese have a history of being stalwart and crafty opponents when they're arrayed against a numerically superior foe. But I doubt a conservative Tsar, or Soviet leader, for that matter, would be impatient enough take such a risk.
 
Would they? I mean, the Soviets? Remember, everyone thought that the Soviets would steamroll the Poles in the twenties. I'm still wondering if the seventy thousand Japanese troops can rescue the Czech Legion and bring some sort of Tsarist victory, which will probably lead to the political fragmentation of Siberia and the temporary destabilization ruin of Russia. And once the Tsarists do consolidate what they have and the Japanese have a puppet state in their former territory, if they come roaring back with the same sort of vigor with which they attacked Poland in the early twenties, then who knows who will win? Russia has numbers, sure, but that didn't do them much good in the Great War or against the Poles--and the Japanese have a history of being stalwart and crafty opponents when they're arrayed against a numerically superior foe. But I doubt a conservative Tsar, or Soviet leader, for that matter, would be impatient enough take such a risk.


Different circumstances the Soviets were beaten in front of Warsaw by the Poles due to a cock-up in their own command, but if they’d won another battle the Pole’s would’ve been on the back-foot again.

The Polish army was also much bigger than a mere seventy thousand, Siberia is much more challenging to an invader than European Russia the White's had zero coordination and they were incompetent. The Whites were lucky to last as long as they did OTL.

The Japanise may get a puppit state in the Far East near the Pacific Coast but an advance into central Siberia would be folly. The Soviets have too much at stake they could make terms with Poland but they wont stand by and wach their Pacific coast be taken by Japan.

By the latter part of the Cvil war the Red Army was ragged but very dangerous opponent, fighting it would be more than troublesome for Japan any talk of a White victory because Japan sent a few troops is ASB they'd have needed a much larger scale intervention by one by western powers to prop them up.
 
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