Japan discovers and colonizes Australia instead of Britain.

John Davis

Banned
Given that the distance between Japan and Australia is only 6,848 km, I couldn’t help but wonder think about a hypothetical TL where Australia is colonized and established as a settler colony by Japan instead of Britain during the 17th-18th centuries. And similar to OTL, the following things happen:

1). Japanese settlers arrive in large numbers and many conflicts and massacres happen between settlers and the aborigines due to land disputes and other things(like with the British in OTL).

2). Japanese settlers infect aborigines with smallpox, measles, and tuberculosis which results in our near extinction(like in OTL).

3). Australia becomes a majority-Yamato continent and its society and culture are modeled after that of Japan’s.

I’m imagining a scenario similar to the Japanese colonization of Hokkaido.
 
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We lose a place close to Japanese territory to station soldiers during World War 2.

Butterflies, Butterflies, fly fly away...

In order for this to happen, you need the fundamental philosophy of the Japanese government to change CENTURIES in advance, as well as its level of interaction with the Europeans and the development of its naval technology... especially since to get to Australia they either need to follow the Chinese and Indochinese coast, or sail through the Spanish-Held Philippines and the Spice Isles/Indonesia, just to get to the (not very appealing) North Coast.
 
They would require stopping places along the way. And as in Japan rice formed the main source of power, and eating meat was banned at times, I feel that it would be difficult setting up colonies that are self sufficient. The differences in diet and the seasons alone would make them rather distinctive from the Home Islands.
 
IMHO, 17th century is too late, the POD should be at the 15th or 16th century. But I can't see a good reason for them to go all the way to Australia, unless they already have a very big empire. I think that they have too much land closer to their home, first they would try their luck in places like Hokkaido (already being settled), Sakhalin and Manchuria, then go south to Taiwan and the Indonesia/Philipines and only then go to Australia.
 
IMHO, 17th century is too late, the POD should be at the 15th or 16th century. But I can't see a good reason for them to go all the way to Australia, unless they already have a very big empire. I think that they have too much land closer to their home, first they would try their luck in places like Hokkaido (already being settled), Sakhalin and Manchuria, then go south to Taiwan and the Indonesia/Philipines and only then go to Australia.
Pretty much, yes.

Although I doubt that Sakhalin is attractive enough to support a large population.

But. Yes, they're going to fill Hokkaido first. Then take Taiwan and settle that. Then probably the Philippines and work their way south. And where do they get the maritime tech and mindset to be doing all this?

For them to get to Australia ahead of the Brits means huge PsoD centuries before.

So.... Suppose that, instead of suppressing the wokou pirates in the 14th c., the Japanese authorities (or some of them, anyway), decide to co-opt them. There's too much political and military danger getting tangled with land battles in Korea and China, so they 'encourage' the pirates to settle Taiwan (which is mostly inhabited by aboriginal peoples at this point, not by Chinese). With a growing power base in Taiwan, the Kyushu daimyos come to dominate Japanese politics, and give Japanese culture a maritime and commercial flavour it largely lacked OTL. They set up trading stations, which then become extraterritorial ports, and then expanding colonies in the Philippines and points south.

By the time that *Magellan arrives, the Japanese control the trade (at least) in the South China Sea. By 1600, there are Japanese trading posts (at least) from Bengal to Sri Lanka to all the major islands in the *Indonesian archipelago. Taiwan and Luzon count as Home Islands by this point (although 'pacification' is still on going on the latter).
The discovery of Australia may (or may not) still be made by Europeans, it's the Japanese iTTL that are in position to actually exploit and settle the place.

Settlement initially happens in the north east where tropical agriculture from their southern territories works well, but expands south, with settlers from Japan proper and more temperate crop packages, happens later.

However, the drier West and interior are largely ignored, and *Perth is settled by a European power (France, Britain, Spain, Netherlands, take your pick). Western Australia, therefore, doesn't become Japanese until the *Napoleonic Wars when Dai-Nippon allies with (whoever's fighting the colonizer of Western Australia), and seizes it.

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How's that? Wildly improbable, but surely possible.
 
What is with people drastically overestimating Japan’s power?
Also, what's with people drastically overestimating Australia's appeal as a colonial target?

The Austronesians knew about it and didn't colonise it. The Dutch knew about it and didn't colonise it. The Bugis knew about it and didn't colonise it.

Even the British started by using it as a dumping grind for people they wanted to get rid of.
 
What is with people drastically overestimating Japan’s power?

Lack of knowledge on just how divided Japan was, how naval warfare was practiced few clans, and how Japanese ships sucked. In all in a nation with plenty of potential at the time if used right.
 
What is with people drastically overestimating Japan’s power?
Hindsight, I suppose. It's easy to forget that Japan was what was considered a backwater on the edge of civilization by the Chinese before becoming a power that thrashed and humiliated them. Granted, that relied on the Chinese being incompetent and divided despite their own modern battleships.

Plus, why would they look that far south? The money has always been to the west of them. China, Korea, eventually Europe. That's why they tried conquering the mainland (twice!) and modernized to European standards. Likewise, the Portuguese and Spanish explored for paths to get to the money. China, Japan, India.

It's like asking why Alexander didn't just conquer Europe. Persia and the East was right there. The rich, established east, rather than the uncivilized reaches of Blackpool of all places, being miserable.

There has to be a reason for them to go southward and explore and even then, it's a matter of already knowing about Australia's nice spots (north isn't nearly as nice as the south) and resources to actually bother with full scale colonization the way people imagine it. Or dumping criminals but there's plenty of places on the way to do that.

Also, what's with people drastically overestimating Australia's appeal as a colonial target?

The Austronesians knew about it and didn't colonise it. The Dutch knew about it and didn't colonise it. The Bugis knew about it and didn't colonise it.

Even the British started by using it as a dumping grind for people they wanted to get rid of.
Hindsight. We think of Australia as vast, rich in useful resources (particularly minerals), and ripe for the taking. People back a couple hundred years ago didn't know about the resources. Mostly the desert, I guess. But they didn't have a reason to bother there, the money was to the north. Plenty of places to conquer and plenty of more lucrative places to go. Australia was a side show, at best, so why bother at that point?
 
They would require stopping places along the way. And as in Japan rice formed the main source of power, and eating meat was banned at times, I feel that it would be difficult setting up colonies that are self sufficient. The differences in diet and the seasons alone would make them rather distinctive from the Home Islands.

Definitely, but remember that most Japanese couldn't exactly afford rice and thus ate buckwheat/soba and other plants as their main staple (which ironically is healthier).

Although I doubt that Sakhalin is attractive enough to support a large population.

It definitely was to early 20th century Japanese, going by how fast Karafuto Prefecture's population exploded and how many people the Russians deported after WWII. Unlike the Philippines or Manchuria, there's no organised native states to resist, and in most other aspects, the southern part of the island is very comparable to Hokkaido.

Even the British started by using it as a dumping grind for people they wanted to get rid of.

The pre-modern Japanese had plenty of places to get rid of people too. The problem is, any TL where the Japanese are in the position to think about colonising Australia probably has them in control of plenty of better dumping grounds. The Kurils/Chishima, Kamchatka, the Aleutians/Alaska/the New World in general, etc.

Lack of knowledge on just how divided Japan was, how naval warfare was practiced few clans, and how Japanese ships sucked. In all in a nation with plenty of potential at the time if used right.

Yeah, this is why I don't think it's possible to have Japan colonise Australia with a POD earlier than the Heian era thus resulting in a different Japan. And even then, Japan's natural interests lie in Taiwan, Hokkaido/Karafuto, and the Philippines, and even Alaska and the Pacific Northwest are more natural targets for Japan than Australia.
 
Definitely, but remember that most Japanese couldn't exactly afford rice and thus ate buckwheat/soba and other plants as their main staple (which ironically is healthier).
There was apparently some sort of craze for white rice and pickles that messed with people's bodies for a couple decades in the cities. As for peasants... Hmmm. What kind of environment is needed for soba? When it came to rice I had partially been thinking there would be a problem getting enough water for rice paddies. And does anyone know if there was any local foodstuffs that the Japanese ght adopt?
 
There was apparently some sort of craze for white rice and pickles that messed with people's bodies for a couple decades in the cities. As for peasants... Hmmm. What kind of environment is needed for soba? When it came to rice I had partially been thinking there would be a problem getting enough water for rice paddies. And does anyone know if there was any local foodstuffs that the Japanese ght adopt?

Buckwheat grows a lot of places, but it's most useful as a cold weather crop. I'd assume it could be grown in certain parts of Australia. There's other crops like taro the Japanese could grow, and they could possibly even adopt the kumara from the Maori or other Polynesians. Bananas will grow well along a lot of the eastern coast.

Local crops, there's probably not much of interest. The biggest potential is the various species of Tasmannia peppers which could be used and traded as a spice. Probably macadamia nuts too, since those were domesticated OTL.
 
Ancient Australia was far away for ancient Japan. Did pre-Meiji Japan dream about an empire beyond their home islands or close neighbors like Korea or Taiwan? Indonesia based empires closer to Australia like Srivijaya or Majapahit did not make any attempts to explore Australia. The Cholas who possessed a strong navy also didn't try. Lack of any information about such a vast continent to the south must have been the reason.
 

trajen777

Banned
I think your best bet is to start in 1550 - 1600. Start with the Daimyo Oda. and his control of the empire. So:
1. Japanese pirates were very active up and down the China coast. So their nautical ability was pretty solid.
2. Japanese population was at max 22 mm people at this time (say low of 11 mm)
3. Portuguese make contact in 1543
4. The Korean invasion was in 1592 (meant to expand and also to give the Samurai something to do) vs rebel
5. Have the need for expansion head south vs west. Pirates and traders going south discover Aust
6. You have 50 years of Portuguese contact so have them trade some nautical experience for trade to make the Japanese ships better.
7. First discovery of Australia (1606 by Dutch). So you have a window of 50 years plus to colonize
8. Now two ways to go
a. A defeated Daimyo departs Japan with all of people (lets say 50,000 ) and colonizes Australia
b. Some forces under Oda and Hideyoshi are dispatched to investigate expansion south and go to Taiwan and Phil and then Aust,
1. Upon this discover with virtually no one their send sizable forces south to colonize and relieve the population burden. These colonies send back food for more people, arms etc.

Not the easist this can also be done :
If you wait till 1606 and have the info on a new uninhabited land (or few) then you have to have the Korean war transferred to southern conquests. The southern drive has limited success, but success. Then have the 1606 news arrive and colonies are arranged for conquest south.
This would result in :
1. A stronger and increasingly effective Navy (u need this for the ship board travel)
2, The dramatic use of firearms experienced by Japan would have continued because of their needs for defense on long travel
3. Japanese control of the Euro trade with China
4. Continued rapid population explosion
 
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