Japan declares war on USA and USSR

Crazy idea I've been thinking about for some time, but as you know, stranger things have happened, like the Zimmerman telegram, or Hitler's declaration of war on the US.
So, after Germany declares war on the US, the war in the Pacific goes as in OTL. In may 1942 after the fall of the Philipines, Japan realizing that Stalin can't be trusted and will stab them in the back with the first opportunity, declares war on USSR. However, they keep a defensive stance in Manchuria, don't try any ground offensive in Siberia and even stop offensive actions in China. Instead, they destroy with their navy every port facility of significance in the Russian far east and in the Indian Ocean. Are battleships, battlecruisers, cruisers and such, together with land-based aircrafts enough to level Vladivostock, maybe even a surprise amphibious landing? In the meantime, could some aircraft carriers go into the Indian Ocean and destroy the ports in Iran?
If you like you could also add a more significant collaboration between the axis powers, like Germany giving radar and sonar technology and receiving torpedoes and training in using the air-launched torpedo.
To isolate better Soviet Union from outside help, the germans should build and send more torpedo bombers to block Archangelsk and Murmansk.
Could the japanese use their subs as the germans did and not only in support of the fleet? Did they have in 1942 subs that could reach the US west coast?
 
IJN subs were off the West Coast OTL, but wolf pack tactic would male little sense, given how Cargo moved along the Americas.

But getting the IJN mindset to even consider going after cargo hulls would need a few PoDs by themselves.
Submarines were only good for scouting, sinking Warships, and running supplies
 
Nothing, Japan just commit National Suicide like OTL...maybe OTL....MAYBE Stalin move quickier and we could see a full fledge Red Korea or even a Red Hokkaido and those butterflies would be massive
 
I'm not sure why the Japanese would want to make the Soviets spiteful enough to grant the American requests for airbases in the Soviet Far East.
 
Is a joint US-Soviet invasion of Hokkaido and eventually hitting Tohoku and Kanto possible? It would be interesting to completely avoid the island hopping strategy. OTOH, that was in the works as War Plan Orange for many years and why would Stalin want to let hundreds of thousands (if not more) Americans in the Soviet Far East? The only Americans he wants there are the ones helping repair the mess the Japanese caused and the ones hauling supplies. Maybe some pilots bombing Japan too. And of course you'd be sailing against the ocean currents in very stormy/foggy waters that once you get past Vancouver has subpar ports and supply.

Nothing, Japan just commit National Suicide like OTL...maybe OTL....MAYBE Stalin move quickier and we could see a full fledge Red Korea or even a Red Hokkaido and those butterflies would be massive

But Japan just wrecked all the Soviet Far Eastern ports and sank the majority of their Far Eastern shipping, so where are they gonna get the ships? What happens in Korea is a different matter. Hopefully Kim Il-sung dies in the chaos.

Bad news for Japan are those American airbases.
 
Bad news for Japan are those American airbases.
The hell would freeze and empty before Stalin allow an american in soviet soils, he knew what they were playing and was smart to keep them kilometers away, again the irony is that just reinfornced the need of soviets to focus more in east asia but soviets are busy with a life or death struggle with the nazis
 
I'm not sure why the Japanese would want to make the Soviets spiteful enough to grant the American requests for airbases in the Soviet Far East.

This x 1000. Incendiary bombs and matchwood Japanese cities don't play nice - it was for this reason that the Japanese considered any war scenario that didn't involve a physical ground campaign on Soviet territory a non-starter from the get go. Heck, they had (in hindsight, greatly exaggerated) concerns the Soviet air force alone flying out of Primorye might be enough to cause significant havoc; the prospect of the Americans basing their B-17s on Russian territory would have terrified them.

With that being said, there really wasn't any chance for the Japanese to launch a land invasion of the USSR after 1941. They tried to rebuild their army in Manchuria during 1942, but they never really attained offensive readiness goals and were soon being called upon to send troops back south to the Pacific in short order. The whole saga of Japanese war planning vis-a-vis the USSR, and Soviet countermoves to said planning, can be read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantokuen
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
In may 1942 after the fall of the Philipines, Japan realizing that Stalin can't be trusted and will stab them in the back with the first opportunity, declares war on USSR. However, they keep a defensive stance in Manchuria, don't try any ground offensive in Siberia

This doesn't make much sense. Why would they declare war to preempt a Soviet attack, yet maintain a defensive posture in Manchuria?
 
Is a joint US-Soviet invasion of Hokkaido and eventually hitting Tohoku and Kanto possible?

It is but it's not particularly attractive, Hokkaido isn't a great staging area for an invasion of Kanto, probably requiring another 'hop' to northern Honshu before the main event. There are better alternatives than MacArthur's OTL strategy but the Soviet Far East isn't up there. The real benefit of the Soviets entering the war in 1942 is that American bombers can now hit Japan earlier and more regularly than in OTL whilst forcing the Japanese to commit more troops to defend Manchuria.
 
With that being said, there really wasn't any chance for the Japanese to launch a land invasion of the USSR after 1941.

do you think if they either blockaded Soviet Far East and/or occupied rest of Sakhalin it would bring the US in? in 1941, as alternative to their historical operations
 
The hell would freeze and empty before Stalin allow an american in soviet soils, he knew what they were playing and was smart to keep them kilometers away, again the irony is that just reinfornced the need of soviets to focus more in east asia but soviets are busy with a life or death struggle with the nazis
*Cough*
 
do you think if they either blockaded Soviet Far East and/or occupied rest of Sakhalin it would bring the US in? in 1941, as alternative to their historical operations

The Commonwealth will almost certainly declare war and the US will likely increase pressure on Japan even further. It could potentially delay the official American entry into the war but as with all 'Japan goes north' scenarios, that doesn't mean much for the Japanese and their dwindling supply of natural resources.
 
do you think if they either blockaded Soviet Far East and/or occupied rest of Sakhalin it would bring the US in? in 1941, as alternative to their historical operations

From the above article:

"Further damaging the anti-Soviet cause, although General Hideki Tojo and Emperor Hirohito both supported the reinforcement of Manchuria as called for by the AGS, neither was ready to commit to hostilities. Hirohito in particular continued to express worry over the volatility of the Kwantung Army and the negative image the "special maneuvers" created abroad. These concerns were not unfounded: as late as October 1941, G-2, apprehensive over the rapid increase of Japanese strength in Manchuria, recommended the US provide direct military aid to both the Soviet and Chinese armies in an effort to check Axis expansion in the East and keep the USSR in the war against Germany."

This was is response to mere posturing on the part of the Japanese - no shots had actually been fired yet. Had there actually been an attack the US would undoubtedly have done everything in its power to send arms and equipment to the Soviets fighting Japan, as well as enact even tougher measures against the latter's economy. With the Japanese limited to about 2 years' worth of strategic materials, these actions would have almost certainly brought the two countries into direct conflict as they did historically.

Additionally, with the Kwantung Army (and then some) fully engaged in Siberia, it would have been far less able to act as a pool of ready manpower for IGHQ to fling at the Allied counteroffensive over the course of 1943-45. Because of this, the Japanese would have had to create a reserve on the Home Islands (historically the First and Second General Armies) to deploy as the second and third echelons in the Pacific, resulting in greatly decreased options for Operation Ketsu Go.

Basically the Japanese are bleeding on four fronts instead of three and are spread even thinner as a result.
 
As I was saying, they don't try to invade the SU, the logistics are a nightmare, just enforce a blockade on soviet and persian ports. I believe it could be successful in the first couple of years. The soviets too, I don't think they have the capacity, troops and logistics at that time for an important attack on Manchuria. The goal is to stop or at least to reduce significantly the flow of lend-lease supplies towards SU. So no battle of Midway, just reinforce the already taken islands with land-based aircraft and keep the main aircraft carriers to enforce the blockade, maybe remove the RN from the Indian Ocean if possible.
It would help if the Kriegsmarine focus towards Murmansk, maybe do not send Bismark on convoy raiding in the middle of the Atlantic, but together with Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, U-boots, more Luftwaffe in northern Norway and Finland etc, try to stop the convoys in the Arctic.
Also, try to disable the oil field of Baku with air raids as soon as airfields are available, and do not send them to transform Stalingrad into rubble.
 
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