alternatehistory.com

Hi, this is my first post here, and I want to see how this will be recieved as my first contribution to this site. :D


As has been discussed numerous times before on this site, the possibility of Japan becoming Christian or Catholic has been floated around. After reading a bit into the history surrounding the circumstances of the early Catholics in Japan (complete with Catholic Daimyo, especially in Kyushu), a “mostly” Catholic Japan a la Latin America or achieved via European colonialism is most probably ASB. However I got around to thinking that if the Catholic Daimyo in Kyushu (namely Omura Sumitada, Otomo Sorin and Arima Harunobu) had been a little bit more successful militarily, with (more “firm”) Portuguese and/or Spanish technological teeth at their backs, that while Japan was never going to be majority Christian/Catholic, maybe there will be at least a strong “regional” Catholicism, based in the island of Kyushu and the surrounding small islands that IOTL were the base of the “Kakure Kirishitan” or “Hidden Christians” who covered up their beliefs with Shinto and Buddhist ritual to avoid suspicion. However, with this “catholic wank” these Hidden Christians (and the pictures of their activities that I am planning to use in this AH, among others) are simply peasant believers who start syncretizing their beliefs, with no need to be “hidden”, especially in “friendly” territory in Kyushu.

However, I haven't decided exactly how things will develop up to the present day and how this affects other Asian nations around Japan. Several things are butterflied though: There is no need for a Shimabara rebellion, as these daimyo are fiercely independent and (especially in the case of Omura Sumitada) fervently, fanatically Catholic. There may be a “shimabara rebellion” in reverse, but I haven't decided on that part yet.

No sakoku policy, at least in Kyushu. Maybe sakoku still exists in the rest of Japan, but we'll see.

It may not even be a Tokugawa shogunate in the rest of Japan. Perhaps the Date emerge victorious in northern Japan...

Probably no invasion of Korea by Hideyoshi. Seeing as after the POD Kyushu is unpacified all military attention will be focused on it.

Spanish/Portuguese military help will feature ATL, with consequences as appropriate.

With such a powerful Jesuit presence in Kyushu, the Dutch don't make it to Nagasaki and either go elsewhere in Japan (maybe Edo or Tohoku?) or don't arrive at all, with the heavy Portuguese/Spanish monopoly in southern Japan.

William Adams, of Shogun fame is either recast or butterflied away.

Taking a page from Omura Sumitada, the Kyushu Catholicism centered in Nagasaki is fervently fanatical and will morph into something rather terrifying by today's age.

Meiji restoration may be affected. I haven't yet decided how, but this is a major consequence.
This also affects future Japanese foreign policy. Maybe no Sino-Japanese war, probably no annexation of Korea, etc, because the bakufu is too busy trying to take Kyushu.

Obviously no Pearl Harbour. Don't know if WW2 in Europe still occurs on schedule.

Japan will have bad blood with Spain/Portugal, until recent times

No need for Perry to pry open Japan, for there was no sakoku in the 1st place. Jesuits have always been welcome in Kyushu. Intermarriages and stuff happens frequently. (Will be mentioned later)

I will also want to eventually post about how this affects Japanese culture throughout the years in between up to the present. We know ATL that “Hard Gay” exists. :p

As for the butterfly moment, here it is: The battle of Mimigawa in 1578 between the Catholic Otomo Sorin and the Buddhist Shimazu Takahisa was a decisive Shimazu victory IOTL. However, in OUR timeline, what happens at Mimigawa? Read to find out :D! Without further ado, here is the first article:


Some info on people/topics mentioned in post:

Shogun: Total War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shogun:_Total_War

Omura Sumitada
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omura_Sumitada

Otomo Sorin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otomo_Sorin

Arima Harunobu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arima_Harunobu

Hard Gay
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_gay

Kanako Otsuji
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanako_Otsuji

Battle of Mimigawa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mimigawa

Nagasaki (especially section on Jesuits)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagasaki


www.gamespot.co.uk

Creative Assembly's Shogun: Total War Historical Battle #4: The Cannons of the Cross: The Battle of Mimigawa.

In the weeks leading to the release of Shogun: Total War, Gamespot PC will highlight one historical battle featured in the game per week.

This week, we feature the Battle of Mimigawa, whose significance in the history of Kyushu and of Japan cannot be underestimated. Put in the role of Otomo Sorin, the player faces the formidable Shimazu army who hitherto had been invincible within Kyushu. The Shimazu army is well trained and highly experienced, and also includes a arquebusier unit, which is well placed and will cause problems for your numerous but less experienced troops. However, the player is gifted the possession of two cannons, and this combined with Otomo's high piety rating of 6 (out of a possible 9) mean that your army gets +6 to defense and has a 30% lower chance of routing, a considerable advantage. No way around it, you will definitely take some casualties from the experienced Shimazu forces. Use the cannons and your superior numbers to spread out the Shimazu units and hopefully defeat them in detail, as happened historically. After your victory a cutscene will play showing Otomo's thanksgiving mass on the field and the narrator will mention the consequent dedication of Hyuga Province to the Virgin Mary that scandalized the rest of Japan and led to the combined Toyotomi/Tokugawa/Oda invasion of Kyushu, which will be featured next week in the battle of Kokura.

May 16, 2000, Gamespot editors.



Gamefaqs forum (July 12th, 2000)

PC Games > Strategy Games > Real time strategy > Shogun: Total War

Discussion forum

Topic: Catholic clans (Board Mod: Stickied)

By TotalWarFan312

There has been a lot of confusion over Catholic clans and what sort of bonuses they get, and how they play differently from the “standard” clans.

All Catholic clans get to utilize “Holy Fervour” which is exclusive to them. Based on the ruler's piety, each piety point adds +1 to defense and reduces the chance of routing by 5%. The higher the piety rating, the higher the bonus. As an added bonus, Catholic clans get a bigger bonus from foreign trade (up to a staggering 50% higher if trade skill is maxed out) and occasionally are gifted free units from Spain or Portugal. The higher your relationship with the Jesuits, the more units you get. Players have reported that, playing as Omura Sumitada in the 1564 campaign and maxing out relationships with the Jesuits, they have received up to 16 units of 3 silver chevron Tercio Pikemen, Armored Arquebusiers and Elite Conquistadors in a random event: an extremely powerful force.

What are the downsides of playing as a Catholic Daimyo? Well, basically almost every non-Catholic Daimyo will hate you, and trying to go for the best ending route of “peaceful unification” (an oxymoron in this game, but anyways the cinematic is nice) is closed off due to the almost complete lack of intra-Japan diplomacy forced on Catholic clans. Basically if you are the only Catholic clan in the game, you will have to go it alone. No one will agree to your proposals, and everyone will want to fight you. Your only recourse will basically be brute force. Certain daimyos, notably Omura Sumitada, Arima Harunobu and Otomo Sorin, will become Catholic through a scheduled event in-game, and another event will show the Omura and Arima clans cementing their Catholic alliance via marriage. This is a scripted event that will happen randomly between 1579 and 1590, and this is unavoidable if the PC is playing both the Omura and Arima clans, providing they aren't wiped out yet. While players can choose to convert to Catholicism at any time as long as there is at least a single priest in his domain, this is extremely dangerous if you are not in the Kyushu provinces, down around Hizen and Bungo and maybe stretching to Nagato and Yamaguchi. Developers said that while historically hostility to Catholicism in Japan was strong, it was nothing like in this game, where even Daimyo related by blood or marriage will turn on you instantly unless they are Christian as well. This was to balance the extremely powerful bonuses that these clans receive.

As for tips on playing this style, be sure that if you go the Catholic route (or choose a Catholic clan in the later scenarios) it is IMPERATIVE that you raise your piety rating as high as possible and build as many chapels and cathedrals as possible. Your standard Samurai will no longer be affected by the morale penalty when facing Warrior monks, indeed they will get a morale bonus instead. Your military survival and power comes from exploiting the relationship with those Jesuits in Nagasaki. Sometimes they ask you to do dumb things, like telling you to stop fighting other Christian Daimyo, forcing you to divert funds to build a new Cathedral or telling you to raze the Buddhist temple in newly conquered lands (which as a Catholic Daimyo you should do anyway). But, then, if you're playing as a Catholic Daimyo, you're already past the point of no return. Just try to keep your Jesuit relationship and piety as high as possible.

Playing as a Catholic Clan is definitely a different experience, and will close off some options in the game, but it is an interesting way to play and can affect some POWERFUL bonuses. I'd highly recommend this route to experienced players. Its worth a look.


Reply to Above:

Thanks TotalWarFan312! That was really informative! I wanna play the Omura clan now, they seem badass! :D

TotalWarFan312: Thanks SamuraiShampoo93! Always happy to help! :)



BBC World News > Asia

February 11th, 2006

LGBT Japan joins forces with Omura Catholics to denounce controversial entertainer

A tall, muscular ex-wrestler in black tights, a pair of sunglasses and a black beanie hat has taken Japan by storm. From Sapporo in the north to Kobe and Osaka in the south, “Hard Gay”, whose real name is Masaki Sumitani, has received a rapturous welcome from many Japanese in all walks of life. His comical hip-thrusting, stereotypical “gay” behaviors and “public service” (which consists of shouting “WOOOOO!” at the top of his voice while selling noodles or picking up garbage) has many Japanese people splitting their sides with laughter.

However, don't tell that to Kanako Otsuji, Japan's first openly Lesbian politician from the city of Osaka and head spokeswoman of LGBT Japan, an organization devoted to LGBT rights in Japan.

“While I have nothing against Sumitani-san personally, the behaviors and stereotypes that he portrays of LGBT people for laughs are causing a lot of problems for LGBT members of our society.” Kanako said in a statement to NHK and the BBC.

“People will think that gay men are like that, when that is totally untrue. I realize he brings happiness to many Japanese but I ask that Sumitani-san choose another comic routine. Stereotypes hurt all people, whether Japanese, Korean, LGBT, or Catholic.”

Surprising support for Otsuji's position has come from one of her fiercest foes: The Omura Catholic Organization of Nagasaki (OCON).

OCON spokesman Don Jesus Yamada said in a released statement that: “Homosexuality is an affront to God, Japan and the Church. 'Hard Gay' is a stench in the nostrils of our Lord that he will spit out on the Day of Judgement. I will light a candle with fear and trembling for his soul, for he has committed a grave sin.”

Catholic analyst Taro Aso of Edo University says that this is merely a “tactical alliance” where they happen to agree on one issue, but they are still opponents in the media and culture wars in Japan.

“The culture war has been going on unabated for a long time now.” Said Aso. “While as both a professing Catholic and a patriotic Japanese I pray for unity, the statistics show a worrying divide in Japanese society, and it breaks my heart that the 'wa' of Japan and the love of Mother Mary are being flung aside in a race to the bottom.” Aso's statement read.

“The Neocon OCON has hijacked the Japanese Catholic movement, and it alarms me to see such hatred and vitriol from people I consider my siblings in Christ.”

Mr. Sumitani could not be reached for comment.

Report compiled from Kyodo news agency and NHK
Translated by Mariko Yasuda
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