James V has a son, effects on English succession?

So, this is somewhat similar to another thread I've created, but say that James V and Mary of Guise have a surviving son, and that perhaps James V manages to live until his son is at least sixteen, when the issue of the English succession arises, what would Mary I do, especially if her sister Elizabeth is dead before her?
 
Well firstly we need to remember that war with England is still likely to happen in this TL so there is a chance James dies on schedule.
Lets assume his son James Stewart, Duke of Rothesay (b22 May 1540) actually survives (in otl he died at 11 months) and succeeds his father as James VI in 1542.
Presumably the rough wooing is done away with but Arran and Cardinal Beaton are arguing about the regency and control of the young James VI for the next few years. Henry VIII will almost certainly propose peace at some point and offer his daughter Elizabeth for the young James. Lennox will also be a factor in this in otl his support for pro-English policies in Scotland cost him everything north of the border but gained him Margaret Douglas (in ttl - he might stay north).
Beaton was murdered in OTL that still might happen - Arran moved between faith's depending which way the wind blew (and changed between pro-English and Pro-French policies as well).
You are still going to get growing religious pressure with an element of English support for it, a fractious and divided Scots nobility jockeying for position and an infant King caught in the middle of it all.
In reality Mary's accession in England (assuming Elizabeth is still unmarried in otl) will change little - though the maturing James will be nearly of age in 1553 - Mary herself will still insist she is capable of producing a child (and she had a Spanish/Imperial match firmly in mind and that is not likely to change particularly not to marry a man young enough to be her son)

In otl Philip was reluctant to remove Elizabeth especially after it was clear Mary was unlikely to produce an heir because the only other option Mary Stuart was married to the French Dauphin. In this tl James VI might be more attractive (if he is still Catholic) - the obvious solution for Philip and Mary is marry James VI to Elizabeth uniting their claims but ensuring that the Catholic James succeeds in preference to the bastard Elizabeth - that of course depends on what has happened in Scotland - James under the influence of his mother might well have been pushing for a French marriage and he is of an age with the children of Henri II - Likewise Philip might prefer James married to one of his own family and Elizabeth banished to the tower permanently
 
Well firstly we need to remember that war with England is still likely to happen in this TL so there is a chance James dies on schedule.
Lets assume his son James Stewart, Duke of Rothesay (b22 May 1540) actually survives (in otl he died at 11 months) and succeeds his father as James VI in 1542.
Presumably the rough wooing is done away with but Arran and Cardinal Beaton are arguing about the regency and control of the young James VI for the next few years. Henry VIII will almost certainly propose peace at some point and offer his daughter Elizabeth for the young James. Lennox will also be a factor in this in otl his support for pro-English policies in Scotland cost him everything north of the border but gained him Margaret Douglas (in ttl - he might stay north).
Beaton was murdered in OTL that still might happen - Arran moved between faith's depending which way the wind blew (and changed between pro-English and Pro-French policies as well).
You are still going to get growing religious pressure with an element of English support for it, a fractious and divided Scots nobility jockeying for position and an infant King caught in the middle of it all.
In reality Mary's accession in England (assuming Elizabeth is still unmarried in otl) will change little - though the maturing James will be nearly of age in 1553 - Mary herself will still insist she is capable of producing a child (and she had a Spanish/Imperial match firmly in mind and that is not likely to change particularly not to marry a man young enough to be her son)

In otl Philip was reluctant to remove Elizabeth especially after it was clear Mary was unlikely to produce an heir because the only other option Mary Stuart was married to the French Dauphin. In this tl James VI might be more attractive (if he is still Catholic) - the obvious solution for Philip and Mary is marry James VI to Elizabeth uniting their claims but ensuring that the Catholic James succeeds in preference to the bastard Elizabeth - that of course depends on what has happened in Scotland - James under the influence of his mother might well have been pushing for a French marriage and he is of an age with the children of Henri II - Likewise Philip might prefer James married to one of his own family and Elizabeth banished to the tower permanently

Interesting, why do you think James V would still die after the fighting with the English?
 
If Elizabeth is dead and Mary is queen, she's going to find a way to force Parliament to allow her cousin, a ruling king, to wed (insert girl in line for succession) and rule England much the same way posited in the Henry VIII dies in 1512 thread (limited power in England - but probably more than James IV would be granted). Especially since she has no child. Parliament might do it, simply because they're tired of Mary and tired of religious in-fighting.
 
If Elizabeth is dead and Mary is queen, she's going to find a way to force Parliament to allow her cousin, a ruling king, to wed (insert girl in line for succession) and rule England much the same way posited in the Henry VIII dies in 1512 thread (limited power in England - but probably more than James IV would be granted). Especially since she has no child. Parliament might do it, simply because they're tired of Mary and tired of religious in-fighting.

Interesting though if James is her legal heir, why would they grant him limited power?
 
I was thinking that Mary would have to give that much away to get him to the throne (via Margaret Douglas or Katherine Grey as Queen); he is Catholic and she's been burning people right, left, and center. Their son will take the throne completely. I could be wrong. I've been wrong before. And I've been wrong about being wrong, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I'm probably overthinking it.

But.....you never did tell me what you did to Elizabeth :p!
 
I was thinking that Mary would have to give that much away to get him to the throne (via Margaret Douglas or Katherine Grey as Queen); he is Catholic and she's been burning people right, left, and center. Their son will take the throne completely. I could be wrong. I've been wrong before. And I've been wrong about being wrong, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I'm probably overthinking it.

But.....you never did tell me what you did to Elizabeth :p!

Lol true, though would Parliament if it were Catholic be opposed to another Catholic successor?

And aha, either she met a fainting couch, or she became the fainting couch. Marriage and all that, not for our Iron Queen
 
Interesting, why do you think James V would still die after the fighting with the English?
Principally because the only thing that has changed is that a son born in our time line has survived - the cause of the war etc has not changed - traditional enmity and Henry's desire for James to break with Rome as he had done etc
 
If Elizabeth is dead and Mary is queen, she's going to find a way to force Parliament to allow her cousin, a ruling king, to wed (insert girl in line for succession) and rule England much the same way posited in the Henry VIII dies in 1512 thread (limited power in England - but probably more than James IV would be granted). Especially since she has no child. Parliament might do it, simply because they're tired of Mary and tired of religious in-fighting.

If Elizabeth was dead then on Mary's death to most James V is the senior heir general - Katherine Grey is the legal heir according to statute - Parliament's rights to limit royal authority wasn't really a question - they used their power to limit Philip's powers on his marriage to Mary - that act did not limit her authority it actually reinforced it in terms of how much power her husband had.

If James is acknowledged as the heir and succeeds - he will be sovereign and won't share power with his wife even if she was high up the English succession and he is marrying her to see off a rival claimant.

As i said earlier if Elizabeth lives then the likely hope of childless Mary is marriage between her and Catholic James V - he will keep her sister in check - however it is also likely that Elizabeth herself would dump the betrothal on her accession - if the wedding has already happened then Elizabeth's first parliament passes an act limiting James' power in England during the lifetime of his wife - which of course its up to Elizabeth to sign into law or not.

Elizabeth dead then it really will be a battle between three rivals - Katherine Grey, Margaret Douglas, and James V - if Margaret plays the dying Mary well enough and can convince her cousin Frances Grey then the most sensible solution for them is Katherine marries Henry Lord Darnley (there's only a five year age difference) - nominally Henry is a Catholic like his mother - it ties Mary's legal heir to a Catholic husband and unites the two lines from Henry VII's daughter's - arguably strengthening their hand against the Scots claim. Mary makes it clear she is abiding by her father's will and that Katherine is her lawful heir - long live Queen Katherine and King Henry
 
I've thought about this. By Henry's will, the Katherine Grey is the first in line. She was born in 1540 (as was James VI). Mary takes power in 1553, Kate and Jamie are 13; Mary weds Philip and tries for children, but since: 1) she wants to keep England Catholic & 2) like her father, she was a sucker for a sob story (why H8 never saw anyone once he decided on their fate), she's going bring Katie to court and, from what I've read of her, Katie was more Cartland than Calvin - a romantic who spent time in the Tower for love. Mary will not wed her heir to the son of the Earl of Lennox and I suspect any one of my dogs would be a better King than Darnley. He's going to be 13 when Mary dies, another reason why that betrothal won't take place. Mary will wed Katherine to James to ensure peace since Parliament will not accept Philip wedding Katherine. James will be the lesser of two evils in this event.
 
I've thought about this. By Henry's will, the Katherine Grey is the first in line. She was born in 1540 (as was James VI). Mary takes power in 1553, Kate and Jamie are 13; Mary weds Philip and tries for children, but since: 1) she wants to keep England Catholic & 2) like her father, she was a sucker for a sob story (why H8 never saw anyone once he decided on their fate), she's going bring Katie to court and, from what I've read of her, Katie was more Cartland than Calvin - a romantic who spent time in the Tower for love. Mary will not wed her heir to the son of the Earl of Lennox and I suspect any one of my dogs would be a better King than Darnley. He's going to be 13 when Mary dies, another reason why that betrothal won't take place. Mary will wed Katherine to James to ensure peace since Parliament will not accept Philip wedding Katherine. James will be the lesser of two evils in this event.

Few things to consider on this mainly politics both domestic and international
It is highly likely that in the mid 1550s Scotland is allied with France still - James' mother is French and her and her Guise relations will be pushing a French marriage in the early to mid 1550s and Henri II will be keen because his rival's son has married the English Queen - international Catholic opinion will be if Mary's dies without issue James VI will be her lawful heir. Under statute as you said Katherine Grey is the heir not withstanding the treason of her immediate family - also Mary is never going to admit she won't produce an heir until very late in her reign - personal vanity, religious belief and fervour and her passion for Philip will simply not allow her to.

Another point - all depends on Elizabeth's death - when it happens if it happens before or just after Mary's accession - then Wyatt's rebellion might well not happen - in which case Jane Grey might keep her head a little longer. If Elizabeth dies towards the end of the reign then I would expect exactly the same as in otl - until her death - then Mary needs to make a choice - by 57/58 James might be betrothed to a French princess if not already married to one - although Mary and Philip might have kept him free by offering Elizabeth and then drawing out negotiations to prevent a further Franco Scots alliance.

Mary was close to both her first cousins Frances Grey and Margaret Douglas - and both attended her court - Mary herself often hinted she thought Margaret had the most right to succeed her (senior descendant of Henry VII who was born in England) so I wouldn't rule out Darnley been considered as a possible match for Katherine if she finds herself Mary's heir - to be honest Mary might well name Margaret or Darnley in her final weeks. Of course the decision finally will probably rest with who moves quickest and can gather support quickly - Margaret was a canny political operator and if she can get the Catholic peers onside then she might manage to get her son crowned Henry IX marriage to Katherine would placate protestants in the short term and might encourage some exiles to return home.
 
Henry II of France would certainly not engaged his firstborn son to wed a scottish princess with no hopes of inheritance. If Francis II is married in another family (which one ?), it butterflies away the influence of the Guise at the French court and pretty much put the French Wars of Religion on a very different path. Elisabeth, onetime fiancee to Edward VI, would be a good prospective bride for *James VI, with the butterfly of Philip II of Spain finding another wife after Mar's death, maybe not a cousin or niece this time.
 
Oh that would be interesting though did t Elisabeth marry philip as part of the peacae that ended the Italian wars?
 
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