James Stuart, King of Poland?

VCS: Thanks so much for your imput so far! I'd definitely appreciate your thoughts on the new direction I'm taking this TL. What's your opinion? Could the Boyars have pulled off the revolt? Or are they by this time, a spent force?
Any further thoughts would be welcome.

Abdul Hadi Pasha: Ah! What a pleasure to have you participating in the discussion! As the famed "Ottoman Expert" I'm sure you'll bring some much needed balance into the discussion ESPECIALLY as the Ottoman Empire is a nation I (like many others) frequently underestimate.

Anyhow, flattery aside, you're right on both counts. The Ottomans hadn't really started to deteriorate yet and Russia definitely wasn't up for the challenge. As for the future, Russia's going to be weaker so the OE's going to last a bit longer. But I don't think I've eliminated any factors that prevent the Hapsburgs from emerging victorious in their war with the Ottomans.

Any other thoughts are more than welcome!

Everyone Else: Comments please! I'm extremely interested in your opinions.
Would Charles XII marry Louise Stuart? Would their offspring, if Protestant be awarded the British crown? Would George I get shafted?

War of the Sejm? Plausible? Comments?

Swedish gains in the Scandinavian War? Plausible?

Any effect's I'm missing?

Looking forward to your response!
 
What happened to the War of the Spanish Succession and the Austro-Turkish War of 1715-1718? The latter can easily be butterflied away but the former would require diplomacy to prevent.

I think that the Swedish-Polish rivalry will resurface, given enough time. Meanwhile, Russia's not the only one who has reasons to fear their alliance. The Hohenzollerns might find their possessions in Prussia and Pomerania targeted for annexation. But I don't think the Poles would help in the Scandinavian War, they have nothing to gain.

Also consider the Ukrainian Cossacks, who I assume passed under Polish suzerainty after the war. If the Stuarts want to avoid a repeat of the Khmelnytsky Uprising they should try to negotiate some sort of agreement with them, maybe even create a Commonwealth of 3 Nations. It should be easier with the magnates tamed.
 
VCS: Thanks so much for your imput so far! I'd definitely appreciate your thoughts on the new direction I'm taking this TL. What's your opinion? Could the Boyars have pulled off the revolt? Or are they by this time, a spent force?
Any further thoughts would be welcome.

I think Peter's position was not really secure in the early years of his reign, so an overthrow by the boyars doesn't seem unlikely.

Regarding a future Swedish-Polish rivalry, some nationalist Polish king might want the rest of Livonia back, or some Gustavus Adolphus wannabe might set his sights on Courland or Danzig.

Here's a map of the situation in the Ukraine at the time of your POD. Expect the Poles and Russians to get back the lost territory and Azov, respectively, once the war with the Ottomans is over. It's quite likely that Crimea will use the Great Northern War as an opportunity to get back Azov and raid into Russia. Poland-Lithuania will probably gain the Hetmanate and Zaporozhia at the Treaty Riga, but I don't know about Smolensk (north of Andrusovo, not on the map).

map14.jpg
 
Last edited:
The latest installment was a bit thick. If I'm reading this right, Jakub II's brother becomes the King of Britain while he is the King of Poland/Lithuania. The bit about the new King of Britain is interesting in the way of how will their children (those of a Prussian/Scottish line) hold their rights in the face of the rights previously enjoyed by George I of Hannover....

All the changes in Poland/Lithuania seems moderately appealing, since I'm guessing the goal here is to shore up their stance in Eastern Europe in the face of Russia/anyone else who comes.

Would Charles XII marry Louise Stuart? Would their offspring, if Protestant be awarded the British crown? Would George I get shafted?

War of the Sejm? Plausible? Comments?

Swedish gains in the Scandinavian War? Plausible?

Any effect's I'm missing?

Tell you the truth (re: Louise Stuart)...I thought James Stuart's son's wife was actually a cousin and not hailing from Sweden at all...

(see above for George I thought)

The War of Sejm, as I see it, seems to be necessary (see above, second paragraph), although I'm curious on where the now dissident noble class went to and if they will bring trouble to the new kings. Otherwise from that, it does seem bit of a cliche for new kings/new realms = rebellion from nobles.

I'm not that talented in regards to Swedish history but it looks all right.

Since the TL is focused on lovable Poland/Lithuania, the shortened bit about England is worth it. The effects, with this subject in mind, would go on about how Hungary/Ukraine/rest of Eastern Europe fares in the long run/short run.

It is interesting.
 
G.Bone: Regarding the British Succession: Basically with the POD in 1696, Louise Stuart, the youngest daughter of James Stuart (James II of England/VII of Scotland) does not die of Smallpox in 1712 as in OTL. Instead she marries Charles XII of Sweden (of Great Northern War Fame) at the behest of her BROTHER James II of Poland (OTL's Old Pretender) and pops out a whack load of kids.

Her Second youngest son, John is selected by the British Parliament over George I to appease the Scots. At only 4 years old he is proclaimed King of Britain and shipped to London where he proceeds to grow up. So thus John II of England is actually James II of Poland's nephew.
 
Hey there, another question

This one regarding the Hapsburg-Ottoman War...

With no Prut Campaign, Moldavia obviously doesn't revolt. Would the Prince of Moldavia (Dmitri Casmir?) at the time side with the Hapsburgs once they intervene on the side of Venice?

Would a Hapsburg supported Moldavian revolt be successfull? Stripping the OE of their Romanian territories? Would this keep the HRE in the war longer? Long enough for Venice to regain Morea?
 
Would the Prince of Moldavia (Dmitri Casmir?) at the time side with the Hapsburgs once they intervene on the side of Venice?

Dimitrie Cantemir, known as Dmitri Kantemir after he took refuge in Russia in OTL. I personally doubt it. It's true that the Romanian Principalities will continue to look towards Austria as a counterweight to Turkey if Russia can't provide an alternative, but in the OTL war most of the fighting took place in what is now Vojvodina. Cantemir would not risk his throne if the Habsburgs can't help him.

Now if Austria were to send a sizable army to Moldavia, that would be something else, but I don't think that would be militarily wise.

Long enough for Venice to regain Morea?

I don't think Venice was in any position to regain Morea.
 
Some notions on the War of Seim.
While there were common to fight with the king but this one seems to me modeled along English Civil War. Seim was not permanent body. Every two years there were some deputies send from every district in two weeks sessions. Rokosz (rebelion against the king) was sort of confederation. The confederations were organized in some way to be treated legal. In districts were held meetings where were signed declarations and then registered in the court, then they elected deputies to the general confederation.
 
*Thread Necromancy*

Re-read the rest of the TL please!

Part III: The War of Austrian Succession

(From “Europe to 1740 TL 20,000” by Dr. Henry Efferts)

With the Point of Divergence being in 1696, Europe had changed a good deal by the time of what would be analogous to our timeline’s War of Austrian Succession. James Stuart, formerly James II’s reign in Poland was uneventful, however his son was elected to succeed him leading to a gradual increase in the power of the monarch culminating in the War of the Sejm and the establishment of what would become the first truly constitutional monarchy (with Britain running a close second).

Sweden, due to a Polish alliance, would win this timeline’s Great Northern War and reduce Russia to a backwater once again. Charles XII would lead his nation to dominate almost all of Scandinavia as well as a sizeable chunk of North Germany in addition to producing a large number of heirs to the throne with his wife Louise Stuart. Russia meanwhile would reject the forms of Peter I and revert to a glorified oligarchy with the Boyars ruling through a puppet tsar.

The War of the Spanish Succession would not occur in this timeline due to the survival of Joseph Ferdinand of Bavaria. In our timeline Joseph Ferdinand would die in 1699 at the age of 6 after suffering from a bout of smallpox. However here, he lives to the ripe old age of 56 and produces several heirs cementing the Wittelsbach dynasty in Spain. The ascension of Joseph Ferdinand to the throne of Spain in 1700 would see the First Partition treaty enacted which led to the final division of the Spanish Empire. Thus the once mighty Spanish Empire died, not with a bang but with a whimper.

The rest of Europe and by extension the world would fail to be significantly impacted by the events occurring throughout southern and eastern Europe. The Ottomans and the Hapsburgs would still go to war in 1716 with nearly identical results. Just like in our timeline, the Austrian Hapsburgs would have trouble producing a viable male heir leaving Maria Theresa to inherit the throne of Austria in 1740. What would begin as a series of minor skirmishes between Austria and Prussia would soon broaden into a war that would become in the words of a famous historian “The first world war”.

The War of Austrian Succession
What started off as a series of skirmishes between Austria and Prussia following the ascension of Maria Theresa and her husband Francis of Lorraine to the throne of Austria soon proved inconclusive and lead to a broadening of the conflict. Within months all of Europe was up in arms.

One of the first major powers to join the fray was none other than the Ottoman Empire on the side of Prussia, eager to regain territories lost in the last war with the Hapsburgs. This was soon followed by France and Spain (the latter of which had been at war with Britain since 1731) on the Prussian side as well as Great Britain and the United Provinces of the Netherlands on the Austrian side. Fighting would commence and before long the combined diplomacy of France and Austria would see Sweden, Poland, and Russia brought into the fray. The resulting war would be one of the hardest fought in centuries and would leave the world greatly changed.

Silesia (1741-1742)
In what would become known as the First Silesian War, Prussia and her allies France, Poland, and Bavaria would go up against the forces of the Hapsburg empire. Despite several decisive victories by the Prussian armies, the anti-Hapsburg alliance failed to gain complete supremacy. This coupled with a mass uprising by the Hungarians at the behest of Maria Theresa proved problematic for the allies.

In a move of excellent diplomacy, Maria Theresa took advantage over the initial Hapsburg victories over the allies. Declaring a short truce she knocked both Prussia and Poland out of the fight. Prussia was placated with the contested province of Silesia while Poland was given a chance to put down a resurgent noble uprising by the members of the now exiled Sejm. However the other factions could not be placated and the war of Austrian Succession continued. This period would become known as the First Silesian war.

Italy (1741-1754)
Following the truce that ended the First Silesian war the Italian front began to take ascendancy in the conflict between the French and the Hapsburgs. Bohemia became a minor front as the majority of French forces were transferred to Northern Italy where they found themselves engaged with the reformed Austrian Armies. This, coupled with the entry of the Kingdom of Sardinia into the fray on the side of the Allies made the French position incredibly perilous.

Fortunately, in exchange for giving Spain back the territories lost in the First Partition treaty, King Joseph Ferdinand of Spain agreed to intervene in Italy. The stage was set for a conflict that would span the length of the Italian peninsula. Spanish and French forces would clash against the forces of Sardinia, Venice, The Hapsburgs and to a limited extent the forces of Great Britain.

Though initially the fighting was contained to the northern portion of the Peninsula, the entry of Sardinia and Venice into the fray on the side of the Hapsburgs created new problems for the French. Naples, now under the direct rule of Paris soon rose up in arms against the French and found support in Sardinia and Venice. Both Italian nations landed considerable armies on the Southern Half of the Peninsula where they did battle alongside the rebels against French troops joined later by Spanish troops.

Eventually the Hapsburg and Italian forces began to gain ascendancy over the combined Franco-Spanish armies making the Italian front a decisive factor in the treaty of Aix-la-Chappelle in 1754.

Germany (1741-1754)
Central Europe would also prove to be a decisive theatre of the war as Hapsburg forces and their allies pushed the combined forces of France and Bavaria back towards the Rhine. Several French defeats following the First Silesian war coupled with the entry of Hanover into the fray on the Hapsburg side and the arrival of an allied army led personally by King John II of Great Britain led to them being pushed back nearly to the Rhine.

However the Withdrawal of John II’s troops due to the Jacobite rising and the re-entry of Prussia into the fray led to the French once again gaining ascendancy. Once again they had the Hapsburgs on the ropes and were driving at the very gates of Vienna itself. However once again, Maria Theresa showed her superb diplomacy by convincing the various other nation states within the Holy Roman empire to take up arms against the invaders.

Before long the combined Hapsburg and German troops turned back the French armies as well as their allies. This coupled with a second Hapsburg allied army arriving once again under John II led to the French being pushed back behind the Rhine and the Prussians being forced to relinquish Silesia in a separate peace before the Treaty of Aix-a-la-Chappelle.

The Netherlands (1741-1754)
The Netherlands, more specifically, the Austrian Netherlands would see some of the fiercest fighting of the war. As the overstretched Hapsburg troops, aided by troops from the Dutch Republic tried to fend off the French armies under the genius Marshall Saxe. Despite initial French victories, eventually the forces of the Hapsburgs with the aid of those of the Dutch Republic and the House of Hanover, gained the upper hand banishing the French from the Austrian Netherlands.

The Jacobite Rebellion
Desperate to try and regain the initiative both in Italy and Germany, France agreed to, in 1745, support the long fermenting Jacobite Rebellion in Great Britain. Meetings with rebel leaders were arranged, and within moments a fleet was marshalled and John Charles Edward Stuart (called “The New Pretender”) third son of James II of Poland was called to lead the insurrection

With the support of the French navy, and 10,000 French troops, John Charles Stuart crossed the English Channel and landed at Essex. This landing was mirrored by numerous highland revolts in Scotland. In addition the majority of the British Army was on the continent fighting under John II in Germany at the time leaving few troops to oppose John Charles Stuart.

Yet the British were determined to safeguard their new found liberties and privileges. The Regency of John II had seen the power of the Parliament take leaps and bounds. Going back to the absolute monarchy of the elder Stuarts was not an option for the People of England in 1745. Marshalling whatever troops were available on the Island young Prince Charles at only 17 years of age met his 2nd cousin at the Battle of Essex.

The last Battle fought on English soil, the Battle of Essex was an incredibly close affair. Yet despite the great advantage in skill, the French were still defeated by Charles’ mixed group of militia and regulars. This coupled with the victory of the British fleet at the Battle of The Channel sealed the Elder Stuart’s chances at retrieving the throne. John Stuart was captured along with the remains of his army and ransomed back to the Poles after the conclusion of the war.

Yet despite the conclusion of the English Jacobite Rebellion in 1745, the Scots remained in rebellion inviting yet another of the Elder Stuarts to join their insurrection. However the arrival of the main British army under John II saw said army march north and brutally put down the insurrection. Scotland would remain under military occupation for the remainder of the war and be subject to severe clearances following the war.

John II used his time back in the British Isles to raise more money and more troops ensuring that the British Army would become a decisive factor in Germany when it would return in 1747.

The New World
The War of the Austrian Succession known affectionately as “King John’s War” was the beginning of the British ascendancy in North America. Militias from the English colonies sprang up from the woodwork to join the relatively small group of professionals King John had dispatched to aid the colonists first in the War of Jenkin’s Ear and then in the broader war of Spanish succession.

Though the colonists would be unable to make any gains in fighting against Spain, they were able to make impressive gains against the French colonies. First to fall were the French settlements along the Gulf Coast most importantly New Orleans. This success was followed up with a massive invasion of New French by combined regular and militia forces that saw the great fortress of Louisbourg fall along with most of Acadia.

The next year , despite paltry French disruptions, the combined British/American forces made their move and marched into New France itself, besieging Quebec city and subjugating the rest of the French settlements in the area. This phase of the continent would be characterized by significant guerrilla warfare between the French and their Indian allies and the British and their Indian Allies.

The Turning point would come in 1749 when a secret Huguenot allowed the besieging forces to compromise the French fortifications. With Quebec in their hands, the rest of New France soon succumbed leaving the British to focus on other more tantalizing targets most notably in the Caribbean.

The Caribbean campaigns would be marked by numerous raids on both French and Spanish possessions. British forces however, would only be able to retain control of the French colonies thereby preventing any major land gains from Spain.

India
The Indian Subcontinent would see a great deal of fighting between French and British East India Companies. The twin dynamic personalities of Robert Clive and Jean Dupliex would see both companies and their Indian allies go at each other with the utmost ferocity. It would be a close fight for the entire war, the momentum shifting from British to French and back again many times. However eventually the allocation of more troops by John II in 1750 would see the British gain the upper hand. The end of the War would see the French position in India reduced to a few key holdings on the eastern coast of India. Nearly the entire subcontinent was now under the dominance of the British Empire.

The Second Scandinavian War
The Second Scandinavian war would see the nation of Denmark, reduced to a rump state since it’s brutal defeat in the aftermath of the Great Northern War, try to regain it’s former territories. A combined Danish and British force would land in Iceland and reclaim it for the Danish monarchy while Danish insurgents prompted a revolt in Norway along with Southern Sweden.

Unfortunately for the Danes, the military might of Sweden, now under Charles XIII proved to be too much for them and before long the Swedes were at the gates of Copenhagen itself. Sweden looked to be ready to re-impose the Kalmar union. Yet the French supported Jacobite rising would cause a great deal of public uproar in Sweden. John II was quite popular due to his likeness to his father Charles XII. This coupled with the opinions of Charles XIII’s mother Louise would cause Sweden to settle for a separate peace giving Iceland and Greenland back to Denmark in exchange for Denmark giving up it’s claim to Norway and Southern Sweden.

The Russian War
Though a subset of the War of Austrian Succession what became known as the Russian war soon developed a character of its own. This was mostly due to the fact that the Boyars encouraged exiled Polish nobles to ferment rebellion in Poland to facilitate their task of subduing the Poles and helping the Hapsburgs. Though they succeeded in the latter by causing the Commonwealth to accept a separate peace with the Hapsburgs, they would fail to subdue the Poles mostly due to the new Grand Army of the Commonwealth.

This professional force along with Swedish regiments would deliver decisive defeats to the Russian army. This would eventually lead to the Russians negotiating an end to the war with Poland in 1746 and a return to the status quo. This war would mark the end of the Boyar Duma as it’s unpopularity coupled with the rising popularity of Tsar Alexei II resulted in the young Tsar overthrowing the Duma and re-establishing himself as an absolute monarch in 1747.

The Treaty of Aix-La-Chappelle
The Treaty of Aix-La-Chappelle would redraw the frontiers of Europe yet again as the battered, bruised, and bankrupt combatants of Europe drew together to negotiate an end to what would later be referred to as “The First World War”. The Treaty would see the following

-All Signatories recognizing the ascension of Maria Theresa and her husband Francis to the throne of Austria
-Silesia remaining in Austrian hands
-France ceding her North American colonies to Britain in exchange for keeping her Caribbean colonies
-French holdings in India severely reduced
-France would give up all claims to the Italian peninsula. Tuscany would join the ranks of the Hapsburg’s Italian territories while Naples and Sicily would be split between the Republic of Venice and the Kingdom of Sardinia.
 
In what would become known as the First Silesian War, Prussia and her allies France, Poland, and Bavaria would go up against the forces of the Hapsburg empire. Despite several decisive victories by the Prussian armies, the anti-Hapsburg alliance failed to gain complete supremacy. This coupled with a mass uprising by the Hungarians at the behest of Maria Theresa proved problematic for the allies.

I don't see why Austria would do better on this front then it did in OTL. The odds against it are even worse.

Prussia was placated with the contested province of Silesia while Poland was given a chance to put down a resurgent noble uprising by the members of the now exiled Sejm.

No way. Silesia was one of the most prosperous Habsburg province (if not the most prosperous) and the source of a lot of their income. The fact that it doesn't look like much on a map doesn't mean it was small fry. Maria Theresa spent the rest of her OTL reign trying to regain it. Unless Prussia's in secure control of the province there's no way in hell the Austrians would part with it.

This, coupled with the entry of the Kingdom of Sardinia into the fray on the side of the Allies made the French position incredibly perilous.

It's not the Kingdom of Sardinia, it's the Duchy of Savoy. No War of Spanish Succession means no War of the Quadruple Alliance, no War of the Quadruple Alliance means no cession of Sardinia to the Savoyards. If, as you say, we go by the 1st Partition Treaty, then Sardinia is the only part of Italy to remain Spanish.

Fortunately, in exchange for giving Spain back the territories lost in the First Partition treaty, King Joseph Ferdinand of Spain agreed to intervene in Italy.

You do realize that this means the French agree to give back Naples and Sicily?

Spanish and French forces would clash against the forces of Sardinia, Venice, The Hapsburgs and to a limited extent the forces of Great Britain.

Why are the Venetians getting involved?

Central Europe would also prove to be a decisive theatre of the war as Hapsburg forces and their allies pushed the combined forces of France and Bavaria back towards the Rhine.

If they're pushing the Bavarians towards the Rhine that means that they've occupied Bavaria itself. That's a big deal.

The Netherlands, more specifically, the Austrian Netherlands would see some of the fiercest fighting of the war.

The 1st Partition Treaty left the Southern Netherlands to Spain.

Marshalling whatever troops were available on the Island young Prince Charles at only 17 years of age met his 2nd cousin at the Battle of Essex.

Essex is a county and land battles from this era are usually named after settlements or local geographical features. It's also north of London - wouldn't it be easier for the French navy to land the Jacobite troops south of the city?

Tuscany would join the ranks of the Hapsburg’s Italian territories while Naples and Sicily would be split between the Republic of Venice and the Kingdom of Sardinia.

How are they split?

Several issues that you did not address:

1) What happens to Florida?

2) You mention the Ottomans joining the war but then completely ignore them. Also, did the 1716-1718 and/or 1735-1739 Austro-Turkish wars still take place in TTL? Some other war(s), perhaps? If so, what was its/their outcome?

3) Does Elizabeth Farnese still marry the Duke of Anjou? If this happens and the Farnese continue not to have any offspring in TTL, Parma would pass under the rule of either the brother or nephew of the French king roughly 1731 (that's the year the last Farnese duke died in OTL). This would make a difference in the Italian front.

4) Does Maria Theresa still marry Francis Stephen of Lorraine? This would make a difference in the German front.

5) Does the Medici line still die out and if so, who would succeed them to rule Tuscany? If it's still Francis Stephen as in OTL and the answer to 4) is yes, this would make a difference in the Italian front.

6) What are Russia's territorial losses?

There's also the fact that the Austrian inheritance issue could be avoided quite easily with a POD so far behind. The Habsburgs had some real rotten luck on that in OTL.

The 1st Partition Treaty gave Naples, Sicily, Guipuzcoa (a Basque province bordering France), and Finale (a marquisate west of Genoa) to the Dauphin (the French heir) and Milan to Archduke Charles (the Emperor's 2nd son) while leaving Spain (with the Southern Netherlands, Sardinia and the colonial empire) to Joseph Ferdinand of Bavaria. Wikipedia mentions a different plan but I've had this one confirmed by 3 sources. Here's a map of the Partition Treaties:

Partition.jpg
 
Last edited:
Top