Jacqueline of Bavaria founding mother of the kingdom of the Low Countries

Jacqueline of Bavaria or Jacoba van Beirern countess of Holland Zeeland and Hainaut is the founding mother of the later kingdom of the low countries or better known as the Kingdom of Belgica.(Le Quesnoy, baptised 16 juli 1401)

First married to the Dauphin of France she was re-married after his death with Jan of Brabant.
Jan of Brabant was her 2 years younger nephew and a weak easy to manipulate man, more interested in hunting, drinking and women than state affairs.
Jacoba, assisted in the early years of her marriage by her father William VI, who just survived an amputation of his leg, seized power by removing one by one their opponents in the Estates of Brabant, and so taking control of the Duchy of Brabant.
In 1421 she gave birth to a son, William, how ever it is suspected the father was not Jan but her lover trustful supporter Frank van Borselen a noble man from Zeeland.

When on 1422 Jan of Brabant died by an unfortunate hunting accident, or murder, and a halve year later her beloved father she became Countes and Duces of Holland, Zeeland, Hainaut and Brabant, and regent of her son and future Duke. The lands were one of the fasted growing economies and only eclipsed in wealth by Flanders and Italy.
All ready during the last 5 years of the live of her father she was involved in politics, initially encouraged by her father who lost much energy after his amputation and saw a fine successor in her, despite she was a woman.
Only she opposed more and more her father in the power struggle in the County of Holland between the Nobles, who wanted to keep the old order and the Nobles and Merchants who demanded more influence from the cities in state affairs.
Gradually she chooses more the side of the Cities, by this opposing her father but at the same time denying her uncle Jan of Bavaria, Bishop of Liege, any influence in Holland and Brabant.

Mean while in 1427 her son William VII was married in his seventh year to Anna the daughter of Adolf van Gulik-Berg, his last surviving child. Anna would inherit the Duchy Berg and Gulik in 1437.

In 1438 Jacoba stepped back in favor of her son William VII Duke of Holland, Zeeland, Haunait, Brabant, Gulik and Berg lord of Friesia. In reality she provided her son who turned to be ,ore than an equal in screwed politics and battle as his rivalries the Dukes of Burgundy and the Kings of France.
In 1441 he acquired the Ducy of Gelre after removing Arno;d van Egmont, by this also eliminating his major opponent in Holland........
 
Possessions of William VII

465px-Low_Countries_Locator_Gelre.svg.png
 
What happened. I think I followed only about a third of that, and none of what changed is at all clear.

Also:
In 1438 Jacoba stepped back in favor of her son William VII Duke of Holland, Zeeland, Haunait, Brabant, Gulik and Berg lord of Friesia. In reality she provided her son who turned to be ,ore than an equal in screwed politics and battle as his rivalries the Dukes of Burgundy and the Kings of France.

"an equal in screwed politics"? What does screwed politics even mean?
 
What happened. I think I followed only about a third of that, and none of what changed is at all clear.

Also:


"an equal in screwed politics"? What does screwed politics even mean?

Jacqueline of Bavaria had a son with her second husband, Jan of Brabant. This unites the Wittelsbach possessions in Holland, Hainault and Zeeland with those of the House of Burgundy in Brabant, Lothier and Limburg. Add in the possessions of the Dukes of Gelre and you have a united Low Countries in the 16th century.

And essentially he's trying to say that her son is basically caught between Burgundy and France and probably is a less than brilliant ruler.

I find Jacqueline of Bavaria a very interesting character Parma, and the scenario presented is very nice too. I've always wanted to do a TL with Jacqueline having children with John, the Dauphin, myself, with the French during the Hundred Years War divided between John fighting the English out of Hainault and Holland while his brother (the OTL Charles VII) fights on in the Loire.

But you might want to find someone to proofread your work if English isn't your first language. Otherwise people won't be able to understand what your writing and will just pick at that rather than discuss the POD you've presented. :rolleyes:
 
Jacqueline of Bavaria had a son with her second husband, Jan of Brabant. This unites the Wittelsbach possessions in Holland, Hainault and Zeeland with those of the House of Burgundy in Brabant, Lothier and Limburg. Add in the possessions of the Dukes of Gelre and you have a united Low Countries in the 16th century.

And essentially he's trying to say that her son is basically caught between Burgundy and France and probably is a less than brilliant ruler.

Thanks.

I find Jacqueline of Bavaria a very interesting character Parma, and the scenario presented is very nice too. I've always wanted to do a TL with Jacqueline having children with John, the Dauphin, myself, with the French during the Hundred Years War divided between John fighting the English out of Hainault and Holland while his brother (the OTL Charles VII) fights on in the Loire.

But you might want to find someone to proofread your work if English isn't your first language. Otherwise people won't be able to understand what your writing and will just pick at that rather than discuss the POD you've presented. :rolleyes:

This. Its a fascinating potential timeline, but its hard to follow and respond to any halfway constructive manner.
 
I just started this thread from my head, without much research, after reading a book of Jacqueline.
I will try to make a family tree of the noble families involved and some wiki links to clear things up. A time line with Jacqueline and Jean the Dauphin would also be very interesting.
With ''screwed politics'' I mean the way politics was done in those days, not only with debate and diplomacy, but also with ruthless murders, or other means to get or to stay in power.
Any suggestion would be appreciated how to follow the time line
 
I just started this thread from my head, without much research, after reading a book of Jacqueline.
I will try to make a family tree of the noble families involved and some wiki links to clear things up. A time line with Jacqueline and Jean the Dauphin would also be very interesting.
With ''screwed politics'' I mean the way politics was done in those days, not only with debate and diplomacy, but also with ruthless murders, or other means to get or to stay in power.
Any suggestion would be appreciated how to follow the time line

Her marrying Philip of Burgundy is also interesting..
 
Philip of Burgundy is her nephew, how ever Jan of Brabant was that too :rolleyes:

Any suggestions how it could contimue? I think Flandres, Cleve and the Bishoprics Munster, Liege and Cologne are nice properties...
 
Philip of Burgundy is her nephew, how ever Jan of Brabant was that too :rolleyes:

Any suggestions how it could contimue? I think Flandres, Cleve and the Bishoprics Munster, Liege and Cologne are nice properties...

And grabbing an electoral vote along the way? I'd think the Empire would name another ecclesiastical principality to the electoral post vacated by Cologne instead.
 
Interesting scenario, however not surprisingly I would have preferred to have the Low Countries united by Brabant;):D.

Another idea for the name of the kingdom could be to resurrect the old kingdom of the Frisians Frisia/Friesland, which was more or less both claimed by Holland and Gelre (as successors) anyway.

Regarding areas for expansion Cleves, Mark, Münster, Liege, Cambrai (Kamerijk), Luxemburg, Utrecht etc. Some of the Northern possessions could be possible, like Flanders, but this will be harder; however there more ways than war to gain a territory.
The electorate-archbishopric (the archbishop of Cologne also was the metropolitan archbishop of large parts of the Low Countries, for instance the bishops of Liege and Utrecht were suffragan bishops in the ecclesiastical province headed by the archbishop of Cologne). Conquering it might cause bigger problems with the empire, but it could be possible to bring it in the Hollandic sphere of influence.

BTW you forgot the duchy of Limburg on your map.
 
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