J.R.R. Tolkien Dies, Robert Howard Lives: Effects on the Fantasy Genre?
- Thread starter vultan
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You would have likely more "national" fantaisies, a bit like SF that is separated into "American SF", "French SF", "Russian SF"... Due to the absence of Tolkien crushing influence, you'll have much less "communication" between fantasy writers, less common bases.
American fantasy would be more low-fantasy based, more relying on confrontation between man/men and environment or foes.
Admittedly, it could mae a french fantasy litterature appearing earlier, more or less equivalent to what exist today : more based on history and existing litterature (Arthurian mythos, Geste of France, Dumas-like fantasy) but the paroding and burlesque fantasy litterature would be less existing for sure.
Russian fantasy would be interestingly both based on Russian mythos AND imperatives of materialism-dialectic vulgarisation. So, looking quite to american fantasy regarding confrontation to nature and foes, but aslo more based on companionship and using similar features than soviet cartoons.
British fantasy with CS Lewis by exemple, would be still much based on High Fantasy but probably more "free" of historical/traditional mythos.
American fantasy would be more low-fantasy based, more relying on confrontation between man/men and environment or foes.
Admittedly, it could mae a french fantasy litterature appearing earlier, more or less equivalent to what exist today : more based on history and existing litterature (Arthurian mythos, Geste of France, Dumas-like fantasy) but the paroding and burlesque fantasy litterature would be less existing for sure.
Russian fantasy would be interestingly both based on Russian mythos AND imperatives of materialism-dialectic vulgarisation. So, looking quite to american fantasy regarding confrontation to nature and foes, but aslo more based on companionship and using similar features than soviet cartoons.
British fantasy with CS Lewis by exemple, would be still much based on High Fantasy but probably more "free" of historical/traditional mythos.
If the article below is right, no Tolkien would prevent (or delay) the development of Unicode for minority languages! 
http://io9.com/5966492/10-most-unlikely-things-that-were-shaped-by-jrr-tolkien
http://io9.com/5966492/10-most-unlikely-things-that-were-shaped-by-jrr-tolkien
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amphibulous
Banned
I think you believe it because you know who Tolkein is, but don't know who the other major early genre writers were. And also because you haven't noticed Tolkien is high fantasy, and almost all the modern stuff is low fantasy. (It's a heroes vs anti-heroes/perfection vs realism thing: google it.)
To take the example of D&D (it's reasonably indicative, I think) they paid out legal settlements to Fritz Leiber and (I'm less sure about this) Jack Vance because they borrowed elements from their work wholesale. But Tolkein's estate never get a cent from them. Raymond Feist and Michael Moorcock have both said that Leiber was much more influential on writers, as opposed to fans, than Tolkein.
Hello???? This was most of human history - people even believed in the magic. Plus there were fairy tales - there even movies of them pre-dating publication of Tolkein!
Probably the two biggest selling fantasy authors right now are GM Martin and Pratchett. Both write low as opposed to high fantasy (ie "dirty" world and characters as opposed to "clean" ones) putting them in Leiber's school. In fact, Pratchett's work started as a homage to Leiber - Ankh Morpork is a comedic version of Lankhmar, and the framing characters for the first Discworld book are Leiber's two heroes, complete with his distinctive dialog style.
Tolkein's work sells - hugely - but other example of high fantasy are actually pretty rare.
amphibulous
Banned
This really is a like a Velvet Underground thing - deeply influential on following artists, but obscure with the mass market:
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1637886_1638374_1638355,00.html
If you're coming to these books for the first time, you'll be stunned at how much of the American fantasy tradition is founded on the salt flats, northern wastes, and strange seas of Newhon, the world where Leiber's fantasy is set.
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1637886_1638374_1638355,00.html
If you're coming to these books for the first time, you'll be stunned at how much of the American fantasy tradition is founded on the salt flats, northern wastes, and strange seas of Newhon, the world where Leiber's fantasy is set.
Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding this, but wouldn't the basic effect be that, instead of the epic Lord of the Rings, the most influential and well-known fantasy work would be the pulp Conan?
As in, the half-naked guy rescuing nubile half-naked women from big monsters and evil cultists in a world much, much, much less well-thought out and developed than Middle Earth, with much thinner characters and themes? As in, mild pornography/wish-fulfillment entirely centered on a sadistic brute who solves his problems by smashing them or calling upon magic that effectively smashes them?
Disaster for the genre. Seriously. Fantasy (and by extension Science Fiction and comic books) would be significantly less respectable today. There would be fewer good writers in the field because they'd be afraid of being taken for terrible artists. Few would try to make movies in the field, and the best quality ones we'd have would be... Well, about on the level of OTL's Conan movies. Or the animated attempts at the Lord of the Rings.
I'd also argue that the basic concept of a team of misfits - which is often abused by the fantasy genre, I'll admit - originated with Tolkien, or at least was brought into the public consciousness by him. This teamwork is pretty central to Dungeons and Dragons.
Of course, it's possible to have a flourishing fantasy genre without Tolkien, but not if Conan is its defining work.
And if you're saying somehow Robert E. Howard makes his own well-thought out epic - a sort of pseudo-Middle Earth - I doubt he'd out-Tolkien Tolkien, or even imitate him well.
As in, the half-naked guy rescuing nubile half-naked women from big monsters and evil cultists in a world much, much, much less well-thought out and developed than Middle Earth, with much thinner characters and themes? As in, mild pornography/wish-fulfillment entirely centered on a sadistic brute who solves his problems by smashing them or calling upon magic that effectively smashes them?
Disaster for the genre. Seriously. Fantasy (and by extension Science Fiction and comic books) would be significantly less respectable today. There would be fewer good writers in the field because they'd be afraid of being taken for terrible artists. Few would try to make movies in the field, and the best quality ones we'd have would be... Well, about on the level of OTL's Conan movies. Or the animated attempts at the Lord of the Rings.
I'd also argue that the basic concept of a team of misfits - which is often abused by the fantasy genre, I'll admit - originated with Tolkien, or at least was brought into the public consciousness by him. This teamwork is pretty central to Dungeons and Dragons.
Of course, it's possible to have a flourishing fantasy genre without Tolkien, but not if Conan is its defining work.
And if you're saying somehow Robert E. Howard makes his own well-thought out epic - a sort of pseudo-Middle Earth - I doubt he'd out-Tolkien Tolkien, or even imitate him well.
You're forgetting all of the crypto-racialist messages about uncivilized people of vigor and decadent civilizations and change and such. World-building would be much more savage, not as clean-cut. Cool.
Honestly, who cares if there's an epic or not. Wagner already created the Ring Cycle a century ago if anyone wants to crib from that sort of thing.
Honestly, who cares if there's an epic or not. Wagner already created the Ring Cycle a century ago if anyone wants to crib from that sort of thing.
Tolkien's work featured
* dying civilizations
Gondor is the last remnant of Numenor, and a shadow of its former might. Its former capital is an abandoned ruin; its population is declining; its royal house extinct. Its great monuments crumble in the distance. But Gondor is alive; Arnor has collapsed entirely.
The Dwarves have a successful community going at Erebor, but their great capital of Moria is abandoned.
The Elves are still around and powerful, but also waning.
The Ents are a dead end.
The landscape is littered with the remnants of lost kingdoms - the Barrow-downs, Amon Sul, Moria, the Argonath, Amon Hen, the Path of the Dead, Isengard.
While Howard's landscape also features ancient ruins, it also includes mostly vigorous, growing societies.
* ancient monsters
the Barrow-Wight, the Watcher in the Water, the Balrog, Shelob, the Nazgul's flying mounts.
* barbarians
The Haradrim and Easterlings; the Dunlendings, and the Rohirrim. Yes, the Rohirrim. They're nice barbarians, but still barbarians. For one things, AFAICT they're illiterate.