J.R.R. Tolkien Dies, Robert Howard Lives: Effects on the Fantasy Genre?

I think it's a pretty fair statement to say that the modern fantasy genre is pretty much a creation of J.R.R. Tolkien and his series of fantasy novels. Yes, there might be other influences, depending on the franchise, but all of the common tropes were started by Tolkien. Orcs and goblins, probably led by a Dark Lord? Check. Burly dwarves and magical elves, long-time rivals with each other but both ultimately "good guys"? Check? Humanity living in a faux-medieval Western European sort of culture, locked in technological stasis for thousands of years? Check? Magic being an important part of the world? Check, check, check. Again, there may be some variations depending on the franchise (World of Warcraft and The Chronicles of Narnia have more races, A Song of Ice and Fire has fewer races, there might be more moral ambiguity in the story if it's more recent, etc), but most modern fantasy franchises are at least vaguely cosmetically similar to Middle Earth.

However, concurrent with Tolkien's first writings, an American author was building his own fantasy world. Robert Howard, a writer for various pulp magazines, had created Conan the Barbarian and his Hyborian Age. He was a writer of "low fantasy" (a retroactive term, I believe, to compare it to Tolkien's own "high fantasy"). While elements of Howard's works inspired others in the future (Gary Gygax, co-creator of Dungeons and Dragons, said he preferred Howard's sword-and-sorcery to The Lord of the Rings), his fantasy world was very cosmetically different than Tolkien's work. His was a world that featured dying civilizations, ancient monsters and barbarians. However, while Conan the Barbarian remains popular, most modern fantasy authors have opted to emulate Tolkien rather than Howard.

But what if Howard and Tolkien's situations had been reversed? What if Tolkien had died in an accident during World War II? The Hobbit is still published and successful (though it's first editions had some important differences to later editions), and someone (C.S. Lewis? Christopher Tolkien?) might at some point make his notes public, detailing a vaguely flesh-out fantasy world with a connection at best tenuous to The Hobbit, but that's all we get from him. Meanwhile, Robert Howard is able to overcome his depression and doesn't commit suicide in 1936. At the time it seemed like he was finally about to make his big break in the world of novels, moving up from the pulps. Say he writes some highly successful (non-fantasy) novels in the late 1930's and early 1940's, enough to live a comfortable life. By the late 1940's in this scenario, his attention turns back to Conan and the Hyborian Age. Though perhaps not as deeply knowledgeable as Tolkien, Howard had a similar fascination with historical civilizations and languages, and sets out to write an epic series of novels set in his fantasy world. Published sometime in the 1950's, they become to the old Conan pulp stories what The Lord of the Rings was to The Hobbit, and are equally as influentially in at least American popular culture.

So my question is, how do these changes effect the fantasy genre, in book, film, and various sorts of games over the years? What would the genre look like if Howard "low fantasy" not Tolkien's "high fantasy", had been dominant?

(BONUS: What if H.P. Lovecraft also lives in this scenario? Say a now successful Howard is able to help out his friend's financial situation, Lovecraft continues his writings, and eventually breaks out into novels by the 1950's, with this signature "weird fiction" stories? Lovecraft has had some influence in modern speculative fiction - strong in sci-fi and horror, peripheral in fantasy - so what if the effect is multiplied?)
 
Honestly I wouldn't see much difference in REH. Him and Tolkien have different views on fantasy worlds. There would be less high fantasy as its called.
 
cauthion - slight sarcasm/rant here

You have Lovecraft who writes stories about ancient and powerful gods, the cults that worship them, and humans who try to do their best to stop them and survive.

You have REH who has Conan (and similar stories) about a barbarian savage who does better at everything than a civilized person, fighting against horrible foes, while in the shadows of ancient civilizations.

Tolkien's story to fame would be an adventuring group who sets out to reclaim their ancestral homeland, and fights various groups along the way, aided sometimes by a wizard. The various group at the end have fought along the way, but band together to take out the evil army as a result.


To me this would lead to fantasy stories about an adventuring group who has to protect their ex-civilized lands people as they struggle to learn what the barbarian has managed to learn from growing up, while living in the shadows of ancient cities, and trying to survive fights with the pawns of elder evils. Said Elder Evils can only be defeated by the barbarian, wielding a basic sword. The wizard in the party would be there to provide wisdom and solve a few critical puzzles that the barbarian's natural capabilities cannot. They might meet a few enemies along the way, defeat them, but at the end the barbarian would be elected leader of the final armies in an attempt to defeat the horde that has been following them.


Yes, I do have a bit of a problem with the concept of the barbarian hero that can always handle things better than civilized people.
 
The fantasy genre would be more centered on barbarian heroes and be more Americanized, if you get what I mean.

Theoretically their fantasies have something in common: They are supposedly set in our world, many millennia ago - but as we see, the result is very different.
 
The fantasy genre would be more centered on barbarian heroes and be more Americanized, if you get what I mean.

Theoretically their fantasies have something in common: They are supposedly set in our world, many millennia ago - but as we see, the result is very different.

Of course, could there be more of a disconnect between the American and British fantasy literary scenes here?
 
Being a gaming nerd...

REH was all about the powerful individual.
JRRT was about the 'merry band of companions'.
Could the Dungeons and Dragons Role Playing Game arise where the fantasy genre was about the individual vice the team?
 
REH was all about the powerful individual.
JRRT was about the 'merry band of companions'.
Could the Dungeons and Dragons Role Playing Game arise where the fantasy genre was about the individual vice the team?

A strong possibility. Games like D&D also probably wouldn't have options for characters to be different fantasy races (elves, orcs, etc), and your character's traits would be focused more on classes (warrior, mage, etc).
 
So-called heroic fantasy was created not by Tolkein but by William Morris with earlier influence from George MacDonald. C.S. Lewis was also influenced by these earlier writers and would have written his Narnia books, or something similar, even without ongoing influence from Tolkein. A 20th century heroic fantasy movement would have emerged, although it might have taken a few years longer. (There was great hostility to fantasy and science fiction in America in the first six decades of the 20th century--as shown in the nationwide banning of Oz books from public and school libraries and in Robert Lindner's absurd depiction of a typical fantasy prone personality as crazy, e.g., as a good candidate for shock therapy, as a victim of child abuse, and as a liar.) The great success of the Tolkein books in the U.S., a decade after they were originally published in Britain, was partly due to the hippie movement and the Sixties zeitgeist. Ten years later, without the Zeitgeist, it would have been harder for a single work of fantasy to achieve such a powerful impact. As to Howard vs. Tolkein, the latter was a literary genius; Howard was a competent pulp writer, nothing more.

There were science-fiction writers such as Lin Carter, Leigh Brackett, L. Sprague de Camp and Fletcher Pratt who wrote something similar to heroic fantasy, but their inspiration was to a great degree from Edgar Rice Burroughs, James Branch Cabell or each other (and yes, from Howard). Without Tolkein, fantasy might have stayed within a "science-fantasy" channel. However, writers of children's and young adults' magical fantasy such as J.K. Rowling, Diana Wynne Jones and Madeleine l'Engle would still have emerged. The great Edith Nesbit made such writers inevitable.

Nature abhors a vacuum. If you removed Tolkein from the scene, then writers who ended up copying him might have struck out on their own and created works of great originality. Or they might have taken their primary inspiration from Morris or from L. Frank Baum (as did Philip Jose Farmer in his remarkable A Barnstormer in Oz) or even from Austin Tappan Wright's Islandia. Eventually someone would have come up with a plot and setting almost as compelling as Middle Earth, and this would have opened the floodgates even if there were no hippies around.
 
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Nature abhors a vacuum. If you removed Tolkein from the scene, then writers who ended up copying him might have struck out on their own and created works of great originality. Or they might have taken their primary inspiration from Morris or from L. Frank Baum (as did Philip Jose Farmer in his remarkable A Barnstormer in Oz) or even from Austin Tappan Wright's Islandia. Eventually someone would have come up with a plot and setting almost as compelling as Middle Earth, and this would have opened the floodgates even if there were no hippies around.

This scenario doesn't create a vacuum. It presumes that the vacuum would be at least partially filled by an expanded Hyborian Age saga written by a longer-living and more successful Robert Howard. "Low fantasy" gets a leg up on "high fantasy". Obviously high fantasy would still exist: George MacDonald has had a huge influence on modern fantasy, and in this scenario C.S. Lewis is still around*. But in the end, it's hard to deny that Tolkien is a big reason behind how we perceive modern fantasy.

Though you're right, I can imagine that the "planetary romances" of authors like Edgar Rice Burroughs having more influence (barely-dressed Herculean warriors fighting impossible beasts in exotic locales has a lot more in common with Howard's work than Tolkien's).

*Random thought: might C.S. Lewis take The Hobbit and expand the story, perhaps with some peripheral influence from Tolkien's notes on unpublished material, creating a series of books around that rather than The Chronicles of Narnia? Of course it'd be different, they each had different attitudes regarding fantasy literature, but they were good friends...
 
Two things.
First. Maybe if Lovecraft lives till the sixties he can write an episode of Star Trek :D, perhaps Who Mourns for Adonis except give Apollo a much more sinister feel.
Second. I don't know much about Robert Howard, but I do think that maybe High fantasy and Low Fantasy might be on equal footing rather than our current total domination by High fantasy. I dont think High fantasy would be outright replaced.
 
REH was all about the powerful individual.
JRRT was about the 'merry band of companions'.
Could the Dungeons and Dragons Role Playing Game arise where the fantasy genre was about the individual vice the team?

So... adventure game books instead of P&P RPGs?
 
I'm not sure REH would have written much more about Conan or other fantasy characters. He was really getting more into westerns and stories about his native Texas. He might have polished up and published some of the Conan/fantasy fragment stories he left behind at his death though. Of course, if Conan/fantasy was all he could sell, he'd likely stay with it. It was his bad luck to hit his writing stride in the Depression...
 
If REH lives then he put out more books and is able to take advantage of the boom in paperbacks. Which turn probably means more cover art of barbarians with scantily clad women wearing a few scraps of mail on the nipples of their implausibly large breasts and…. Excuse me, I must go and take a cold shower.
 
They say that later on in Lovecraft's life his views softened a bit, we may seen a continuing trend of this. Or, conversely if some sources are to be believed Lovecraft's views were always a bit softer, but he enjoyed making people uncomfortable and would say the most outlandish things in order to make those around him uncomfortable.
 
Yes, I read that his views changed after he took a Jewish wife. But then again, they got divorced later. But on the third hand, it's said to be amicably and never fully completed. Not sure what to make of that...
 
Considering the amount of sex and the amoral nature of Conan characters compared to the Christian Tolkien with his morals of the importance of little people it's possible fantasy would be considered less respectable. A far tighter ghetto with fantasy considered very juvenile (which many do anyway).
 
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