Ivan V is born healthy and hale.

Catholics wouldn't be any more of a problem than Protestants. The Ruriks intermarried with the Jagilians for example. The brides would be expected to convert. Once she kissed the cross, the Church would never object. Historically, the Russians were rather relaxed in whom they took for tsaritsas.
The intermarriages stopped in 15th century, though. And past 16 century, even in post-Petrine Russia, there was never a Catholic tsarina. Reason - Catholic bureacracy was much more rigid in regards to converting FROM Catholicism, thus Protestant princesses were preferred. This Vatican bureacracy indirectly killed the House of Romanov, because an alternative to Alix was Helene d'Orleans who was not given dispensation and eventually married some Italian nobody. And we all know how Nicholas II life went.
 
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Hmm very interesting, so would seeing Ivan alive and healthy completely butterflying away Peter's birth be more or less interesting than his older brother surviving and marrying Peter's mother?
 
Catholics wouldn't be any more of a problem than Protestants. The Ruriks intermarried with the Jagilians for example. The brides would be expected to convert. Once she kissed the cross, the Church would never object. Historically, the Russians were rather relaxed in whom they took for tsaritsas.

Uh...the Russians might have been happy had she just willingly kissed the cross, but it's the case of getting her there to start with. She would need a dispensation from the pope to convert to Orthodoxy from Catholicism, and if the pope doesn't grant it, since why should he, she's for all intents and purposes cutting herself off from "Mother Church" and thus damning herself to Hell (at least they can't be sure she ISN'T doing so). The Orthodox church won't accept her without the conversion.

Four cases where this was a problem, admittedly all in the 19th century:

Pedro IV/I of Portugal/Brasil who was offered the throne of Greece. He had conditions if he were to convert, and neither the Greek nor the Roman church was willing to sign off on them, so it went nowhere. (Would make for a cool TL if he somehow agreed without the conditions, though).

Othon of Bavaria and his wife. Neither became Orthodox (he was Catholic, she Protestant), and the palace chapel (Orthodox) had to be de-consecrated for the Catholic/Protestant services and then reconsecrated after the service in the Orthodox rite.

Henri, Comte de Chambord. He fell in love with Elizabeth Mikhailovna of Russia (OTL duchess of Nassau). Nikolai I was willing to allow her to marry him, even so far as to let the Catholic ceremony precede the Orthodox (an inversion of how it should've gone, apparently). However, Madame Royal wrote to the pope begging His Holiness to block the match anyway possible. The pope refused to grant the dispensation for Henri to marry a non-Catholic (which would've meant their children would have been illegitimate) and the match foundered.

Hélène d'Orléans. Alexander III (or rather Maria Feodorovna) wanted her for a daughter-in-law. Hélène was game, she'd already offered to renounce her Catholicism to become queen of England. Her father (who was abusive to all his children) conspired with the Pope to prevent the match by refusing her permission for either.

The only case I can think of where it successfully went through was the marriage of Alexandra Pavlovna and Archduke Josef, Palatine of Hungary, and that solely because she was allowed to remain Orthodox. This isolated her from the Viennese court, which treated her with contempt, refusing to even let her be buried with her husband and stillborn daughter in a Catholic cemetery. So her widower built her a tomb in Budapest, buried her with the stillborn daughter and that was that. And Alexander I had to put pressure on Franz II to allow that to happen.
 
Uh...the Russians might have been happy had she just willingly kissed the cross, but it's the case of getting her there to start with. She would need a dispensation from the pope to convert to Orthodoxy from Catholicism, and if the pope doesn't grant it, since why should he, she's for all intents and purposes cutting herself off from "Mother Church" and thus damning herself to Hell (at least they can't be sure she ISN'T doing so). The Orthodox church won't accept her without the conversion.

Four cases where this was a problem, admittedly all in the 19th century:

Pedro IV/I of Portugal/Brasil who was offered the throne of Greece. He had conditions if he were to convert, and neither the Greek nor the Roman church was willing to sign off on them, so it went nowhere. (Would make for a cool TL if he somehow agreed without the conditions, though).

Othon of Bavaria and his wife. Neither became Orthodox (he was Catholic, she Protestant), and the palace chapel (Orthodox) had to be de-consecrated for the Catholic/Protestant services and then reconsecrated after the service in the Orthodox rite.

Henri, Comte de Chambord. He fell in love with Elizabeth Mikhailovna of Russia (OTL duchess of Nassau). Nikolai I was willing to allow her to marry him, even so far as to let the Catholic ceremony precede the Orthodox (an inversion of how it should've gone, apparently). However, Madame Royal wrote to the pope begging His Holiness to block the match anyway possible. The pope refused to grant the dispensation for Henri to marry a non-Catholic (which would've meant their children would have been illegitimate) and the match foundered.

Hélène d'Orléans. Alexander III (or rather Maria Feodorovna) wanted her for a daughter-in-law. Hélène was game, she'd already offered to renounce her Catholicism to become queen of England. Her father (who was abusive to all his children) conspired with the Pope to prevent the match by refusing her permission for either.

The only case I can think of where it successfully went through was the marriage of Alexandra Pavlovna and Archduke Josef, Palatine of Hungary, and that solely because she was allowed to remain Orthodox. This isolated her from the Viennese court, which treated her with contempt, refusing to even let her be buried with her husband and stillborn daughter in a Catholic cemetery. So her widower built her a tomb in Budapest, buried her with the stillborn daughter and that was that. And Alexander I had to put pressure on Franz II to allow that to happen.

Seems like the Catholic church had a massive stick up its arse about that
 
Seems like the Catholic church had a massive stick up its arse about that

No. Their job (as they saw it) was to get people to Heaven, and by issuing a dispensation allowing them to change religion (and possibly damning herself to Hell), is not in their job description.
 
No. Their job (as they saw it) was to get people to Heaven, and by issuing a dispensation allowing them to change religion (and possibly damning herself to Hell), is not in their job description.
Still seems like they're having a stick there. But fair enough
 
Hmm very interesting, so would seeing Ivan alive and healthy completely butterflying away Peter's birth be more or less interesting than his older brother surviving and marrying Peter's mother?
The second PoD was never done into a TL form on any AH board I know (neither this (pretty tame on Russian PoDs) nor the Russian AH boards).
Too many people are too shy to butterfly away such figure as Peter the Great and thus shoehorn Alexis I second marriage even into TLs where it has little business happening.
 
The second PoD was never done into a TL form on any AH board I know (neither this (pretty tame on Russian PoDs) nor the Russian AH boards).
Too many people are too shy to butterfly away such figure as Peter the Great and thus shoehorn Alexis I second marriage even into TLs where it has little business happening.

Hmm interesting, do we know much about Ivan's older brother? Other than the fact he was fifteen when he died?
 
He was a pretty gifted child, who was groomed as a candidate for Polish crown (with condition that he is to marry Benedicta-Henrietta of Palatinate (mother of OTL wife of Joseph I)) - an interreligious marriage was a grand pain in ass, but some factions in Polish and Russian nobility thought it was reasonable (a variation of this idea is used in A&D as the "Oginski plot" leading to Sophia of Russia becoming Grand Duchess of Lithuania)). He was fluent in Polish language and customs (and could give a reasonably good speech in Latin).
Like many of Alexis I children (or at least his yonger siblings Feodor III, Peter I and Sophia) he was noted to be curious boy, good learner and had a good memory - benefitting from Simeon of Polotsk education program. Nothing of his military accomplishments, though "war games" were part of Royal education as well.
But at least politically he was a very promicing young man.
 
He was a pretty gifted child, who was groomed as a candidate for Polish crown (with condition that he is to marry Benedicta-Henrietta of Palatinate (mother of OTL wife of Joseph I)) - an interreligious marriage was a grand pain in ass, but some factions in Polish and Russian nobility thought it was reasonable (a variation of this idea is used in A&D as the "Oginski plot" leading to Sophia of Russia becoming Grand Duchess of Lithuania)). He was fluent in Polish language and customs (and could give a reasonably good speech in Latin).
Like many of Alexis I children (or at least his yonger siblings Feodor III, Peter I and Sophia) he was noted to be curious boy, good learner and had a good memory - benefitting from Simeon of Polotsk education program. Nothing of his military accomplishments, though "war games" were part of Royal education as well.
But at least politically he was a very promicing young man.

Alright interesting, I might change the overall query now to what if he survives. If he does indeed survive, does his survival butterfly the need for his father's second marriage, I presume he might either marry Benedicta as you mention or his father's otl second wife no? Also, what would become of his slightly handicapped brothers?
 
Feodor was not too handicapped before 1674 accident, at least not too handicapped to prevent a diplomatic/legal career where he would shine, and as for Ivan I don't know -church career maybe? The Rurikid "appandage for second sons" practice may be recreated as Alexis II will be the first Romanov Tsar with brothers approaching adulthood in centuries (when the same situation repeated in 19th century with Pavel I' kids, it became more Austrian (as is "everybody is a grand duke with no personal appanage title", but TTL there may be honorific appanages creation - Uglich, Tver etc.)
Benedicta's match was a condition to inheriting Poland, but majority of Commonwealth nobility did not want an Orthodox king nor it wanted to be ruled from Moscow. Natalya Naryshkina is a homegrown variant after Polish pie in the sky - TTL Matveev has a reason to pimp out his ward to heir to the throne and not to Tsar (she's 3 years older than Alexis Jr. but it can be spinned as a benefit of him being able to have kids immediately).
 
Feodor was not too handicapped before 1674 accident, at least not too handicapped to prevent a diplomatic/legal career where he would shine, and as for Ivan I don't know -church career maybe? The Rurikid "appandage for second sons" practice may be recreated as Alexis II will be the first Romanov Tsar with brothers approaching adulthood in centuries (when the same situation repeated in 19th century with Pavel I' kids, it became more Austrian (as is "everybody is a grand duke with no personal appanage title", but TTL there may be honorific appanages creation - Uglich, Tver etc.)
Benedicta's match was a condition to inheriting Poland, but majority of Commonwealth nobility did not want an Orthodox king nor it wanted to be ruled from Moscow. Natalya Naryshkina is a homegrown variant after Polish pie in the sky - TTL Matveev has a reason to pimp out his ward to heir to the throne and not to Tsar (she's 3 years older than Alexis Jr. but it can be spinned as a benefit of him being able to have kids immediately).

Alright this makes sense. So likely from what I can gather Natalya seems the most likely bride for Alexis Jnr, which likely means some variant of Peter being born if he does indeed have that name. Feodor as diplomat extraordinaire would be fascinating.
 
There are odds that the firstborn son of Alexis Jr. & Natalya will be named Alexis, Feodor or Mikhail (House of Romanov dynastic names so far - Feodor was in honor of secular name of Patriarch Philaret, de-facto founder of dynasty) or something out of left field entirely (the short-living firstborn of Alexis I was named Dmitry). The name Peter is not out of the cards thus. If Alexis II lives the average lifespan of Romanov males he'll die (and his ATL son would inherit) sometime in late 1690ies/early 1700ies.
The rule of Alexis II is likely to be Polonophilic from his upbringing. I don't know about Vasily Golytsine career as a Chancellor being butterflied away TTL, as Artamon Matveev would likely abuse "in-law priveleges" and try to control the foreign affairs/Ukrainian affairs. Though his influence depends on how quick would be Natalya to pop out the son (even her OTL issue was a boy and two girls, and who's to say Alexis II is not going to have the same trouble with male heirs as his father had?).
Though I'll let the dices decide the issue of issue.

No periods of regency (Alexis II will inherit as a 22-years old man, probably with child or two of his own) also mean Sophia stays in Terem unless Alexis II gets the idea to marry his talented sister abroad and to try good old marriage diplomacy.
 
There are odds that the firstborn son of Alexis Jr. & Natalya will be named Alexis, Feodor or Mikhail (House of Romanov dynastic names so far - Feodor was in honor of secular name of Patriarch Philaret, de-facto founder of dynasty) or something out of left field entirely (the short-living firstborn of Alexis I was named Dmitry). The name Peter is not out of the cards thus. If Alexis II lives the average lifespan of Romanov males he'll die (and his ATL son would inherit) sometime in late 1690ies/early 1700ies.
The rule of Alexis II is likely to be Polonophilic from his upbringing. I don't know about Vasily Golytsine career as a Chancellor being butterflied away TTL, as Artamon Matveev would likely abuse "in-law priveleges" and try to control the foreign affairs/Ukrainian affairs. Though his influence depends on how quick would be Natalya to pop out the son (even her OTL issue was a boy and two girls, and who's to say Alexis II is not going to have the same trouble with male heirs as his father had?).
Though I'll let the dices decide the issue of issue.

No periods of regency (Alexis II will inherit as a 22-years old man, probably with child or two of his own) also mean Sophia stays in Terem unless Alexis II gets the idea to marry his talented sister abroad and to try good old marriage diplomacy.

Okay very true, Sophia marrying abroad could be very handy for Russia, and give them a strong ally. The question is who though.
 
There was an idea of killing off the wife of Frederick Casimir Kettler sometime in 1677, and offer Sophia as a replacement. Courland is a neighbour, it's pretty minor AND Protestant state so they easily can agree to Sophia keeping her faith which was an important issue. And by death of Jakub Kettler Sophia (if the match takes place sometime in 1678) will be well-versed in Couronian affairs to manage them instead of her (quite dim) TTL husband. Most important, Couronian Navy will likely not go into decline and will be supplemented by Russian resources, which will mean MUCH different course of the Northern War.
 
There was an idea of killing off the wife of Frederick Casimir Kettler sometime in 1677, and offer Sophia as a replacement. Courland is a neighbour, it's pretty minor AND Protestant state so they easily can agree to Sophia keeping her faith which was an important issue. And by death of Jakub Kettler Sophia (if the match takes place sometime in 1678) will be well-versed in Couronian affairs to manage them instead of her (quite dim) TTL husband. Most important, Couronian Navy will likely not go into decline and will be supplemented by Russian resources, which will mean MUCH different course of the Northern War.

Alright very interesting. And of course Russia' would be advancing its own interests. Hmm, how many kids could one expect Alexis II to have? three? Four?
 
Alright very interesting. And of course Russia' would be advancing its own interests. Hmm, how many kids could one expect Alexis II to have? three? Four?
Four surviving kids is more realistic number, given the number of kids his dad and granddad produced. In fact, it's minimal realistic number, considering Ms Naryshkina was quite good in bed.
 
The only problem with Ms Naryshkina is her brothers, some of them were the textbook definition of overpromoted idiots. In fact, the only competent bunch of Tsar in-laws as of 17th century Romanovs were ironically the siblings of the Tsarina with the briefest tenure - Marfa Apraxina (thus TTL I'd keep match between Marfa and TTL Prince of Uglich/OTL Feodor III - if only to keep Marfa's (competent) brothers in the circles of Russian aristocracy).
Though the situation when Natalya is married to Alexis II instead of Alexis I creates much more different dynamics from OTL, and it pretty much depends on how much the Tsar is fond of his in-laws.
 
The only problem with Ms Naryshkina is her brothers, some of them were the textbook definition of overpromoted idiots. In fact, the only competent bunch of Tsar in-laws as of 17th century Romanovs were ironically the siblings of the Tsarina with the briefest tenure - Marfa Apraxina (thus TTL I'd keep match between Marfa and TTL Prince of Uglich/OTL Feodor III - if only to keep Marfa's (competent) brothers in the circles of Russian aristocracy).
Though the situation when Natalya is married to Alexis II instead of Alexis I creates much more different dynamics from OTL, and it pretty much depends on how much the Tsar is fond of his in-laws.

This is true, I suppose the court politics might be lessened if Alexis is less willing to let them walk over him
 
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