Ivan V is born healthy and hale.

So, I'm considering doing a timeline where an alternate line of the House of Romanov takes the throne, and the candidate I am considering using is Ivan V, brother of Peter the Great. Now otl, Ivan didn't really do much ruling as he suffered from mental disabilities. However, if he was born healthy and hale, and somewhat smart, what differences could this prompt? Would his step mother's family still be angling for Peter to take the throne eventually? Who could a healthier Ivan V marry?
 
So, I'm considering doing a timeline where an alternate line of the House of Romanov takes the throne, and the candidate I am considering using is Ivan V, brother of Peter the Great. Now otl, Ivan didn't really do much ruling as he suffered from mental disabilities. However, if he was born healthy and hale, and somewhat smart, what differences could this prompt? Would his step mother's family still be angling for Peter to take the throne eventually? Who could a healthier Ivan V marry?

Most likely, the Naryshkins remain wherever they are after Feodor III's death. OTL, the main reason as to why Pyotr was chosen ahead of Ivan was due to his health. If Ivan's healthy, the Miloslavsky faction remains in power, with Sofia Alexeïevna as regent for the underage Ivan. As to marriage partners, he most likely still marries a Russian boyarina, I don't think that would change, since the first non-Russian czarina was Ekaterina I (and that was sort of by default), and the first European czarina that had dynastic connections was Ekaterina II (since Sofia Palaeologina anyway)
 
Alright interesting.

Do you think Ivan would pursue similar policies to his brother, or would he remain more inward looking?
 
Alright interesting.

Do you think Ivan would pursue similar policies to his brother, or would he remain more inward looking?

Feodor III and Sofia's regency both pursued "open-door" policies, so it's quite possible that Ivan would do so. Whether he would be as rigorous to drag Russia kicking and screaming into the 18th century is another story entirely, but it might happen. The main difference between the Feodoran Reforms and the Petrine Reforms is that Feodor's were mainly to benefit the church, while Pyotr's were for the good of the state.
 
Feodor III and Sofia's regency both pursued "open-door" policies, so it's quite possible that Ivan would do so. Whether he would be as rigorous to drag Russia kicking and screaming into the 18th century is another story entirely, but it might happen. The main difference between the Feodoran Reforms and the Petrine Reforms is that Feodor's were mainly to benefit the church, while Pyotr's were for the good of the state.

Alright interesting. A mix of the two could be quite interesting. And of course there will be those who will oppose them, due to their own vested interests. I suppose Peter could end up as a good councillor/general for his brother though.
 
Big factors in Peter the Great's reforms were firstly his personality - he seems to have loved change and the challenge of new ideas - and secondly that he spent some time in Europe as a young man. If his brother Ivan ruled solely as Ivan V then a lot would depend on whether Ivan himself grew up to be outward looking and whether he himself did any travelling abroad. If not then whatever reforms came would probably be more gradual and less far reaching. However if Ivan and Peter grew up to be close then if Peter still travelled his experiences might influence his brother to make changes.

Also, as Ivan would have been sixteen when he became Tsar, any regency by his sister or anyone else wouldn't have lasted very long. If I remember correctly, Peter II was pretty much free of any regency by the time he was fourteen.
 
Interesting, could we see IVan trying to travel, or using his brother's experiences to slowly bring change? And perhaps continuing reform of the church?
 
Interesting, could we see IVan trying to travel, or using his brother's experiences to slowly bring change? And perhaps continuing reform of the church?

Quite possibly. A lot depends on what sort of personality Ivan has. I believe that the OTL Ivan V was quite close to his half brother and stepmother, so if the healthy Ivan had an affectionate relationship with Peter he might well have been influenced by his opinions and actions.
 
Personality is definitely an important factor in regard to ATL Ivan V. Another one to consider would be his education. Peter was tutored at a young age by tutors which include Nikita Zotov, Patrick Gordon, and Paul Menesius. If Ivan does not have the disabilities that he has in OTL and his father takes an interest in providing him a quality education, then that should help him in the long run.
 
Alright interesting. A well educated forward thinking Ivan could prevent things such as the 1682 rising? As well as possibly stop the feuding families
 
If Ivan was healthy and strong then I don't think the 1682 uprising would have occurred. The only reason it happened in OTL was because the Boyars decided that Ivan was totally unsuited to be Tsar and that Peter, his younger half brother, was the better option. Sophia and the Miloslavsky's weren't happy and stirred up the Streltsi - hence the uprising.

On the assumption that a healthy Ivan V marries a Russian girl and has a family, is it possible that his children would be the first generation of Russian royalty to marry into European courts?
 
If Ivan was healthy and strong then I don't think the 1682 uprising would have occurred. The only reason it happened in OTL was because the Boyars decided that Ivan was totally unsuited to be Tsar and that Peter, his younger half brother, was the better option. Sophia and the Miloslavsky's weren't happy and stirred up the Streltsi - hence the uprising.

On the assumption that a healthy Ivan V marries a Russian girl and has a family, is it possible that his children would be the first generation of Russian royalty to marry into European courts?

I would assume that yes, this would be the logical thing to happen. Perhaps to Austrian or perhaps French brides as well?
 
Of course, had Ivan V been healthy and hearty, I think it's quite likely he would have had Sophia put BACK in the Kremlin terem with virtually all the other Imperial women. However; what would he have done about Peter? Would Peter have docilely behaved like a good kid brother to a strong Czar or would he have chomped on the bit more openly as time went on? Would Ivan V been so willing to be friendly to his stepmother and half-brother? Could a strong Ivan V himself have had Peter exiled, engineer an 'accident' or even have him publicly executed on via a kangaroo court?
 
Of course, had Ivan V been healthy and hearty, I think it's quite likely he would have had Sophia put BACK in the Kremlin terem with virtually all the other Imperial women. However; what would he have done about Peter? Would Peter have docilely behaved like a good kid brother to a strong Czar or would he have chomped on the bit more openly as time went on? Would Ivan V been so willing to be friendly to his stepmother and half-brother? Could a strong Ivan V himself have had Peter exiled, engineer an 'accident' or even have him publicly executed on via a kangaroo court?

Were things quite tense between them, or was it simply due to the fact that Peter was because of his mother, a threat?
 
Of course, had Ivan V been healthy and hearty, I think it's quite likely he would have had Sophia put BACK in the Kremlin terem with virtually all the other Imperial women. However; what would he have done about Peter? Would Peter have docilely behaved like a good kid brother to a strong Czar or would he have chomped on the bit more openly as time went on? Would Ivan V been so willing to be friendly to his stepmother and half-brother? Could a strong Ivan V himself have had Peter exiled, engineer an 'accident' or even have him publicly executed on via a kangaroo court?


I'm not sure Ivan would necessarily have wanted to get rid of Sophia - at least not in the short term. She had been a big support to their brother Fyodor, and also, as Ivan would still have been only 15/16 when he became Tsar he probably would have been glad of her experience. However as he grew in confidence as a ruler he might have started to resent any attempts Sophia might have made to dominate him, and to at least "encourage" her to take a back seat, if not necessarily a return to the Terem.

Re Ivan's relationship with Peter, I think that if Ivan proved himself to be a healthy and half way competent Tsar then, as the lawful successor to his elder brother, he probably wouldn't have viewed Peter as much of a threat. Also, as Peter was about six years younger than Ivan, by the time he was coming to manhood, Ivan would probably be married and with a young family - thus guaranteeing the succession. If Peter started to show himself ambitious for the crown, then Ivan might have had to take steps to curb him, but provided Peter remained loyal he might have felt glad to have had such a dynamic brother who could perhaps carry out certain duties that Ivan himself didn't have the time or the inclination to do.
 
I'm not sure Ivan would necessarily have wanted to get rid of Sophia - at least not in the short term. She had been a big support to their brother Fyodor, and also, as Ivan would still have been only 15/16 when he became Tsar he probably would have been glad of her experience. However as he grew in confidence as a ruler he might have started to resent any attempts Sophia might have made to dominate him, and to at least "encourage" her to take a back seat, if not necessarily a return to the Terem.

Re Ivan's relationship with Peter, I think that if Ivan proved himself to be a healthy and half way competent Tsar then, as the lawful successor to his elder brother, he probably wouldn't have viewed Peter as much of a threat. Also, as Peter was about six years younger than Ivan, by the time he was coming to manhood, Ivan would probably be married and with a young family - thus guaranteeing the succession. If Peter started to show himself ambitious for the crown, then Ivan might have had to take steps to curb him, but provided Peter remained loyal he might have felt glad to have had such a dynamic brother who could perhaps carry out certain duties that Ivan himself didn't have the time or the inclination to do.
This would be very interesting. Could Peter hold military command at the highest ranks prompting reforms?
 
Ah right you are, I suppose I got caught up with Nappy and his attempt to marry a Russian bride.
There was no marriage to a Catholic princess in the House of Romanov main line period.

This would be very interesting. Could Peter hold military command at the highest ranks prompting reforms?
He was groomed initially (during Feodor III reign) as a future general (and is used in this capacity in A&D, a shameless promotion, I know).
I don't know how much the healthy Ivan would resemble in personality his elder brothers (Alexis and Feodor) but it's likely he'll get into the same "groom a potential heir to Polish throne" project of Alexis I his elder kids (Alexis Jr., Feodor and Sophia) benefitted from. Thus he'll be at least a latent Polonophile in his "house reforms" like his elder siblings were.
Peter adored his older siblings, it was his mum who had a TON of ambitions. I wonder if having a healthy (relatively, Feodor III's health took turn for worse only in 1674 after unfortunate horse accident I've butterflied away in A&D) heir and spare after the death of Alexis Jr. in 1670 would butterfly Alexis I remarriage altogether, hense removing Naryshkin/Miloslavski feud at all.

Another interesting Romanov PoD I'm pondering is Alexis Alekseevich surviving post 1670 and Matveev trying to marry Natalya Naryshkina to him instead of his father. This can lead to completely different dynastic dynamics, as young sister-in-law is more accepted in the family than yonger stepmom (see Agafia Grushetskaya successful attempts to introduce Polish dresses for ladies at court).
 
Catholic brides? In Orthodox Russia? That don't sound right. I'd stick with the German/Protestant princesses like OTL.


Catholics wouldn't be any more of a problem than Protestants. The Ruriks intermarried with the Jagilians for example. The brides would be expected to convert. Once she kissed the cross, the Church would never object. Historically, the Russians were rather relaxed in whom they took for tsaritsas.
 
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