Italy stays out of WW2

HueyLong

Banned
If he splits with Hitler, he won't invade Yugoslavia or Greece and attract allied ire. If he is staying out of the war, he will stay out of the war. He might join the Allies near the end to premept communist take over of Yugoslavia.

However, post-war and during war, Royalists and Metaxists (?) will be supported in Greece. In Yugoslavia, any communist government will be hit by ethnic tensions funded by Italian arms and Chetnik (I think) partisans. An earlier breakup of Yugoslavia into ethnic states, propped up by Italy.

He might support Fascist governments throughout post war Europe, and build a fascist EU, an actual goal of many postwar fascists. Europe, the Nation and all of that. fascism won't be quite as taionted, and I would expect it to be big in quite a few countries if he comes to the Allies side.

Communism never really has a foothold in Italy, and when Mussolini dies in 1964 he is proud to pass the title of El Duce to one of his Generals. His son becomes a famous muscian, based on talent, and also being Mussolini's son.
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El Duce was never an actual title or office, unlike Fuhrer. He appoints the next Prime Minister and Leader of the Grand Council of Fascism, before his death.

And his grandaughter becomes a porn star in the fascist world.
 

Sovereign12

If Italy remained neutral, would Churchill have worried about the French Navy (held up in Mers-el-Kebir, Algeria) being taken over by the Germans as much.
Without Italy in the war, the Mediterranean Sea is effectively the Britishs bathtub, with basically no threat of the German navy. So, would he have bothered having the fleet destroyed?

Would any of the French Fleet gone to Neutral Italy to wait out the war?
 

The Sandman

Banned
For that matter, would Vichy France have gone to Italy for protection in 1942 or '43 in lieu of being invaded by the Germans and/or the Allies? And would there have been increased German pressure on Turkey to enter the war, providing a shorter and more easily supplied route to the Middle East and Caucasus?

Also, while Greece would have been spared, Yugoslavia would probably still have been invaded; IIRC, the root causes of that particular adventure had nothing to do with Italy.
 

Bulldawg85

Eastern Front

Of course there are other implications, imagine what fun Rommel would have had on the Eastern Front. There would be more resources for Barbarossa.
 

Alratan

Bulldawg85 said:
Of course there are other implications, imagine what fun Rommel would have had on the Eastern Front. There would be more resources for Barbarossa.
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Rommel is probably remembered as a failure. His disregard for logistics is far more of a disadvantage in this theatre.
 

EmptyOne

Two other butterflies; North Africa is where the US and British learned to deal with blitzkrieg tactics and the beach landing in Sicily was, in many ways, a live practice for Normandy. Without that expericence and the time to train new units with the lessons learned, Normandy and Western Front might have been much more difficult.
 

Bulldawg85

Southern France

Perhaps with the Italians not involved in WWII there would have been an invasion of Southern France prior to the invasion of Normandy. Perhaps in 1943?
 

Sovereign12

How about the US sending troops to Russia to fight on the Eastern Front instead. After a sever beating intitially, the troops would learn the guerilla-style fighting of the SU, plus these troops could stymie the SU occupation of German territory as the war comes to a close, by having the US occupy German land from both sides.
 

Saladin

HueyLong said:
Exceot Stalin would never allow American soldiers on Russian soil....
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I assume you will explain that to the US fighter and bomber pilots who operated from Russian bases in the 1943-45 period
 

blysas

Banned
When Italy is netural in WW2, we see Germany push more further ino the USSR, whether he captures Moscow in 1941 is a toss of a coin. The war will drag on in the USSR, one thing is for certain Stailn is not going to go down easily.

If and when the allies ibvade France, they will probably be pushed back and then they will throw a second try and succeed and the end lines will be someweher in poland maybe ?

Here's a map of what I think of how far Hilter's wa machine might get into the USSR!

Oh and maybe Tyrkey might join the war against the USSR. Please feel free to add any comments. ty. :D

MPSvc.aspx.gif
 

Chengar Qordath

If the Germans can take Baku that would be a massive boon to their war effort, as it would make them much less dependent upon oil imports. Even if between Soviet sabotage and Allied bombing the Germans can not get very much use out of it simply denying it to the Soviets would have a major effect.
 

HueyLong

Banned
Limited operation, and, they weren't as big of a perceived threat as infantrymen and tank crews would seem. They were limited about what they could do quite a bit from my understanding.
 

Fabilius

luakel said:
I could see Mussolini still invading Greece, but Germany will have no reason to intervene.
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Maybe after WW2 if we assume Fascist Italy surviving, and the Greek civilwar still taking place, Mussolini will invade Greece to fight communism?
 

EvolvedSaurian

HueyLong said:
At tha point, it would not be viewed as an invasion- an intervention for stability and for the West.
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Very true, although I can't see them taking any of mainland Greece.

Certain islands, particularly those formerly belonging to Venice, are possible though.
 

Wendell

EvolvedSaurian said:
Very true, although I can't see them taking any of mainland Greece.

Certain islands, particularly those formerly belonging to Venice, are possible though.
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Some of the Greek islands were already under Italian rule.

Certainly, Italy's Jews have better odds at survival without the strong ties to Hitler. I once read an alternate historywhere Italy, or, rather, Ethiopia under Italian control, becomes a haven for Jews fleeing Nazi-held Europe.
 
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