Italy joins the Central powers

Im not sure if someone asked this question before, but when I used the "search" option I came up with squat.

So my question is: how do we make Italy join the Central Powers instead of the Entante in WWI. And forthermore, how would this affect WWI? Im basically giving you unlimited manouvering space(no ASB ideas, please).
 
I'll just mention the option that is not available in this scenario is Austro-Hungary giving territory to Italy. This is not going to happen while Franz-Josef is around and Berlin has no control over Vienna.
 
I'll just mention the option that is not available in this scenario is Austro-Hungary giving territory to Italy. This is not going to happen while Franz-Josef is around and Berlin has no control over Vienna.

Agreed. The treachery of Italy was more or less a quick bidding war to see who could offer the most land to Rome ... and I'm not sure the CP have much to offer. Add to that the Italian worries of the French and Royal Navies and it's really really hard to envision this. Perhaps if the Turks are Allies then Italy could make plans to carve out some territory, or perhaps promises of Algeria ... but compared to the Allied offers there is little contest.
Highly unlikely but perhaps you could have the British or French naval commands overreact to the possibility of Italy entering the war with their allies (a novel concept???) and attack the Italian ships in a preemptive move. Thereby angering the Italian populace and they throwing their lot into the land campaigns yet without any threat of naval power.
 

Germaniac

Donor
Italy would be even less effective against the allied powers. Why do you think Il Duce couldn't get anywhere in France. The French can hold down the Alpine front pretty damn easily with a small force.
 
Italy would be even less effective against the allied powers. Why do you think Il Duce couldn't get anywhere in France. The French can hold down the Alpine front pretty damn easily with a small force.

1.You mean the Entente, right?

2.Wrong war.
 
So my question is: how do we make Italy join the Central Powers instead of the Entante in WWI. And forthermore, how would this affect WWI?

Basically you need some major incident with France to shift the traditional italian policy to a more pro-Germany one. A serious colonial incident could do the trick, especially if happens rigth before WW1. Alternatevely you could have a more pronunciated economic war with France at the beginning of the century, pushing Italy into Germany economical orbit.

As for the war itself, if Italy joins up the CP, this have to happen before the british entry. Italy was a country dependig largely on trade and a stern blockade could wreck easily the italian economy. So the war window for Italy is pretty narrow and limited to 1914.

In consequence of this Turkey will probably stay neutral. Enver pasha could force the goverment hand only because few german warships sought refuge in Turkey at the start of the war, lending him enough leverage. But in TTL those ships are likely to seek asylum in an Italian port...

Turkey neutrality will have repercussions in the Balkans too, but on this you'll have to ask to someone more expert than me...

Usually in timelines where Italy is pro central powers, the invasion of France have more probabilities to succed, since the french lines, in the first weeks of war, would have been stretched too thin by the necessity to man the italian border too. Personally I've never found those arguments definitives, but is sure that the anglo-french will have a thougher time in TTL.

QUOTE]Agreed. The treachery of Italy was more or less a quick bidding war to see who could offer the most land to Rome ... [/QUOTE]

Interesting. So not joining a war started by a nation you are linked only by a defensive alliance is treachery? Funny, I thought it was called common sense, since the triple alliance was already dead in the 1914.

Indeed, without land concessions Italy would have never joined the central powers, but the real problem with A-H was the control of the Adriatic, rather than the alpine region. Vienna could let Italy have the Trentino region (though not the South Tyrol), but would have never left Trieste go.

Highly unlikely but perhaps you could have the British or French naval commands overreact to the possibility of Italy entering the war with their allies (a novel concept???) and attack the Italian ships in a preemptive move.

A novel concept? And how many alliances Italy had ever betrayed? Let me think...None? But I'm sure you'll have countelss episodes to support your thesis, haven't you?

A preemptive attack is an interesting idea, but why attack if Italy is not showing any intentions to join the the central powers and the relations with Austria are at their lowest point?
 

Deleted member 1487

Basically you need some major incident with France to shift the traditional italian policy to a more pro-Germany one. A serious colonial incident could do the trick, especially if happens rigth before WW1. Alternatevely you could have a more pronunciated economic war with France at the beginning of the century, pushing Italy into Germany economical orbit.

As for the war itself, if Italy joins up the CP, this have to happen before the british entry. Italy was a country dependig largely on trade and a stern blockade could wreck easily the italian economy. So the war window for Italy is pretty narrow and limited to 1914.

In consequence of this Turkey will probably stay neutral. Enver pasha could force the goverment hand only because few german warships sought refuge in Turkey at the start of the war, lending him enough leverage. But in TTL those ships are likely to seek asylum in an Italian port...

Turkey neutrality will have repercussions in the Balkans too, but on this you'll have to ask to someone more expert than me...

Usually in timelines where Italy is pro central powers, the invasion of France have more probabilities to succed, since the french lines, in the first weeks of war, would have been stretched too thin by the necessity to man the italian border too. Personally I've never found those arguments definitives, but is sure that the anglo-french will have a thougher time in TTL.

QUOTE]Agreed. The treachery of Italy was more or less a quick bidding war to see who could offer the most land to Rome ...

Interesting. So not joining a war started by a nation you are linked only by a defensive alliance is treachery? Funny, I thought it was called common sense, since the triple alliance was already dead in the 1914.

Indeed, without land concessions Italy would have never joined the central powers, but the real problem with A-H was the control of the Adriatic, rather than the alpine region. Vienna could let Italy have the Trentino region (though not the South Tyrol), but would have never left Trieste go.



A novel concept? And how many alliances Italy had ever betrayed? Let me think...None? But I'm sure you'll have countelss episodes to support your thesis, haven't you?

A preemptive attack is an interesting idea, but why attack if Italy is not showing any intentions to join the the central powers and the relations with Austria are at their lowest point?[/QUOTE]


Well, the Italian stance followed the LETTER of the agreement, but not the SPIRIT, which is what the CPs were furious about. They did behave in a very mercenary way, essentially tying their entry for either side to their bidding the most land. The triple alliance was also still very much in effect in 1914. In fact Cadorna originally asked his government when he could start deploying troops to invade FRANCE! It was expected by many in Italy and other nations that the Italians would honor their alliance despite the wording. It was only at the prompting of several individuals, namely Salandra and D'Annunzio, that Italy remained neutral at first and later sought the Entente's offer for their declaration of war. Even the Entente was bitter about the process, as the French premier at the time stated something about how "we just bought them off" or something to that effect.
 
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