Italy joins central powers

trajen777

Banned
Though I can't find the quote, Winston Churchill is reported to have aid about Italy's entry into World War II "it's only fair. We had them the last time."

I think the greatest value of the Italians is allowing the AH the ability to not lose 400,000 troops and have the armies tied down on this front vs the eastern front. In addition the loss of French troops moved from the alps to the Marne might have lost Paris and at the least have won the race to the sea for the Germans (Germans would not have to redirect the 2 corps east and the French would not have the extra forces at the B of Marne).

The use of Italian forces vs Serbia and to hold less active front lines (AL, etc) or vs Russia would have helped (5 mm Italian soldiers). I prob would have uses 2 mm Italian soldiers and kept the other 3 mm for factories, farming, etc.

The CP fleet with the Italians would have cut the Med in half, and forced the French transfer of forces form Africa to be heavily defended at best and at worst a number of troop ships sunk. Their would have been no attack on Turkey by the British fleet.
 
Something people forget: If the war is going badly for the Entente, their ability to get loans goes down and the interest rates charged will go up And Italy is making the war go real bad for the entente

Actually its more likely that the USA enters the war to bail out the Entente and make sure their investments pay off like they did IOTL.
OTL until the US entered the war those loans were mostly secured with collateral. So the US until they join doesn't have to worry about recouping their investment, if the Entente can't pay they seize the collateral. The US did not enter to ensure payment of its debts, if it did it got a very poor bargain (spent 20x as much as the value of debt until that point) and a default on the (unsecured) debt it loaned after entry. The US entered because the Entente won the PR war, Zimmerman was an idiot (part of the PR war as well), and Unrestricted Submarine Warfare restarting
 

BlondieBC

Banned
OTL until the US entered the war those loans were mostly secured with collateral. So the US until they join doesn't have to worry about recouping their investment, if the Entente can't pay they seize the collateral. The US did not enter to ensure payment of its debts, if it did it got a very poor bargain (spent 20x as much as the value of debt until that point) and a default on the (unsecured) debt it loaned after entry. The US entered because the Entente won the PR war, Zimmerman was an idiot (part of the PR war as well), and Unrestricted Submarine Warfare restarting

It is actually even better than that. Often the collateral was sold to pay off the loans or the collateral was sold to pay for the goods upon shipment. JP Morgan (effectively UK agent in the USA) exposure was some small fraction of total UK war spending. Seems like a bit under 400 million in net loans where the UK was spending 75 million a week. This is about 5 weeks float, or pretty close to American 30 day terms. It shows the pattern of JP Morgan doing an orderly liquidation of UK assets in the USA.
 
Though I can't find the quote, Winston Churchill is reported to have aid about Italy's entry into World War II "it's only fair. We had them the last time."

It's was more though talk due to the situation and even in WW2 the UK throw a lot of resources in knocking out Italy of the war...so no, the italian declaring for the CP will not be taken by Entente as a joke, quite the contrary.
 

trajen777

Banned
It is actually even better than that. Often the collateral was sold to pay off the loans or the collateral was sold to pay for the goods upon shipment. JP Morgan (effectively UK agent in the USA) exposure was some small fraction of total UK war spending. Seems like a bit under 400 million in net loans where the UK was spending 75 million a week. This is about 5 weeks float, or pretty close to American 30 day terms. It shows the pattern of JP Morgan doing an orderly liquidation of UK assets in the USA.


Read some good books on JP Morgan and he did a very effective job of quick liquidation.

So with Paris taken or at least the race to the sea won, and Serbia out of the war by 14 beginning of 15, AH doing better and Russia getting hammered, Turkey, Bulgaria and maybe Romania in the war on CP side when would GB and France realize better to cut it off now then drain all of their resources on a lost cause ?

Would they stay in thru 15 or would it take the Russian earlier collapse in 16 or 17 to end the war. I believe the credit of France and GB would be exhausted by end of 16
 
Though I can't find the quote, Winston Churchill is reported to have aid about Italy's entry into World War II "it's only fair. We had them the last time."
It is a fake quote, there is no confirmation of it.
It would be very funny that Churchill - who made enough damage during his tenure as First Lord of the Admiralty, mostly by his micromanagement of all situations and his hubris in believing that an amateur could dictate strategy to professionals - had the gall to criticize someone else.
He saved his political career by being the first to publish his memoirs on WW1 (using also confidential papers from the admiralty).
 
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