Italy in a Axis win.

flaris

Banned
What would happen to Italy in a German win scenario where the Italians still stuff around like OTL?

How big would they get and how Puppeted would they be?

EDIT Germany wins in Russia by 1942 without being turned back at Moscow. However Italy still stuffs up in North Africa and the Balkans. Germany without the Eastern front builds up the Luffwatte and by 1944 The UK is driven out of North Africa and Spain has joined the Axis to close off the only other way into the MED. The UK is Also getting Smashed in the Air on a second BOB

The UK then sues for peace keeping most of their land except in North Africa and the Middle East
 
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Kongzilla

Banned
They annex greece, monte carlo and albania, if the British are knocked out they get back what they lost and that's it. And as long as the allies never touch down Mussolini will pretty much keep Italy unpuppeted.
 
Really depends on when the Axis wins happens. If the "Axis win" happens in 1940 and consists of the fall of France with a British armistice (with or without a later Barbarossa), Italy would be much more of a true partner and be in a reasonably decent position to dominate the Med. The biggest threat might not be an overbearing Germany but Vichy France. In such a situation, Hitler would certainly court beaten (and semi-fascist) France as more valuable long-term ally than Italy. Germany would not want Italy and France to fight over things...or maybe they would.

The longer the war continues and it becomes more apparent Italy is acting like Germany's lap dog, the outcome for Italy as equal Axis member shrinks. By 1943, no chance. Even if by some miracle the Germans were able to get some sort of sucessful conclusion to the war after, say, an Allied "disaster at D-Day", by then Italy is just toast.
 
How does Germany 'win'?

It is very difficult to see the United States or the United Kingdom allowing a hostile 'great' power to maintain control of the Med, Suez and access to the Middle East's oil. Germany - if it can by some miracle achieve some kind of peace with the WAllies - will happily sacrifice the Italian Empire to gain American or British acquiesence to control of Europe.

More than likely - and following a CalBear-esque Anglo-American Nazi War peace in 1945, the Italians get Italy, Albania, some of Greece, Nice, and some bits of Dalmatia. The Italian African possessions are now American or British, and Gibraltar, Malta, Cyprus and Suez are firmly British.

Mike Turcotte
 
Depends on when the war ends. The best case scenario is the war ending sometime in 1940. Perhaps just after the Italian conquest of British Somaliland.

1. We are going to want Churchill replaced with someone else. Doesn't matter who. Just someone less hawkish and self confident.

2. Have the British get resoundly crushed in East Africa. Historically Wavell withdraw his forces in good order in face of overwhelming numbers. This actually infuriated Churchill who claimed they just abandoned their posts. In this timeline have Wavell(or another commander) issue an order equivalent to "not one step back." Let the thinking be "They're just Italians, we can take them"

3. The British army breaks at some point and gets completely overrun in a disorganized retreated. 20,000 British soldiers are dead, wounded, missing or captured. This will reinforce the myth of an extremely capable Italian army.

4. Have the Italian Red Sea Flotilla inflict more damage on British merchant shipping.

At this point Britain has nothing going for them in the war. Let's say whoever is Prime Minister sends out feelers for a negotiated peace. I think it would be possible for Italy to get a few choice concessions here most likely to the detriment of France:

1. Italy will get French Somaliland in exchange for the return of British Somaliland and the various parts of Sudan and Kenya Italy captured.

2. Italy gets Nice and Savoy.

3. Some form of control over Monaco. Not sure whether it will be a direct annexation or protectorate or autonomous province. But, most of the population of Monaco was at the time pro-Italian and pro-fascist.

4. Possibly the transfer of Tunisia to Italy. This might be pushing it too far and would really depend on Germany's feelings for the Vichy Regime.

Other than that I can't really see Italy getting any more in any type of negotiated settlement. Absent of a complete and total Axis victory this is the best Italy can do and at the best time they can do it.

3. It is also possible
 
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