Italy honors triple alliance in 1914?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 1487
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Italy is still occupying the Dodecanese islands and Rhodes as well. So the Ottomans have lots of potential targets.
 
Interesting point.
In OTL the dodecanese and Rhodes were important supply point for the gallipoli operation.
could without them an operation on the staits be attemped? is cyprus too far?
 
It helps if we know whether the Ottomans are with the CP, with the Entente or neutral.

If neutral I'm not sure the Entente will be attacking. If one of the Entente, well, you never know but I expect not.:p


Actually the Ottoman Empire's grudges are against Italy and the Balkan states of Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia. Serbia's already getting payback and Italy is with the CP, along with the easiest gains to be made. Possibly Bulgaria is with the CP but I seriously doubt it unless the OE is first.
 

Eurofed

Banned
Italy is still occupying the Dodecanese islands and Rhodes as well. So the Ottomans have lots of potential targets.

Italy could be persuaded by Germany to hand them back if offered compensations elsewhere (such as a bigger slice of French stuff). The Dodecaneso was actually not that important to Italian imperial interests if Turkey was to become an ally.

Actually the Ottoman Empire's grudges are against Italy and the Balkan states of Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia. Serbia's already getting payback and Italy is with the CP, along with the easiest gains to be made. Possibly Bulgaria is with the CP but I seriously doubt it unless the OE is first.

And Russia. You keep ignoring that Russia was Turkey's hereditary enemy. There also was some grudge against Britain becuase of Egypt.

I agree that Turkey had no real grudge against Austria. They had fought their last war in mid-18th century, and Austria had taken no real move to harm Turkey in the 19th century.
 
Whatever side they are on they are getting the Dodecanese back pdq i would think. pobably get them staying neutral too.

Ultimately i think it is somewhat dependant on Britain. Italy comes in with the CP, and Britain gives the Ottomans their dreadnaughts, and promises them the Dodecanese and Libya, plus support for border adjustments with Bulgaria and Greece postwar, and i think the CP's just traded Italy for the Ottomans.
 

Eurofed

Banned
Ultimately i think it is somewhat dependant on Britain. Italy comes in with the CP, and Britain gives the Ottomans their dreadnaughts, and promises them the Dodecanese and Libya, plus support for border adjustments with Bulgaria and Greece postwar, and i think the CP's just traded Italy for the Ottomans.

And the CPs promise them Egypt, Cyprus, and the Caucasus, handing back the Dodecanese postwar after Italy gets compensations elsewhere, plus support for border adjustments with Persia. So what ?
 
i think that the Ottoman's are going to pull an italy in this TL and stay nutral at first than go for the highes bidder,or the side that is obviously winning.

after all they have something to gain from either side and it would be foolish not to enter the war at somepoint even if its only near the end to pickup some pieces of choise realy estate.
 
shillinger, coastal defenses, reserve divisions...Moltke and other senior officers were actually upset during the lead up to the Marne because a corps assigned to guard the North Sea coast had been redeployed, this at a time when the BEF had barely 100,000 men, all committed in France.

I see you have never heard of sarcasm.
 
I see some people think WWI is a table top strategy game where you can just randomly send a model that represents 20.000 men to any place on a map.

This is what I think of an Italian landing: What would be the point of the operation?

It would waste resources and manpower better used on other theatres of war. And you can forget any help from the locals (honestly guys, do you really think "liberating" the southern Italians from their own country will make them Entante-friendly? The concept is stupid at best). Plus, where would they land? They only have one shot at this and it has to be enough to bring Italy out of the war. Nibbling on parts of Italy is pointless. Going through Southern Italy to reach Northern Italy didnt even work for the WAllies. If the operation fails to bring Italy out of the war, then its another bleeding wound for the Entante.

EDIT: I really see no perticular reason why the Ottomans would not do the same thing they did IOTL.
 
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I see some people think WWI is a table top strategy game where you can just randomly send a model that represents 20.000 men to any place on a map.

This is what I think of an Italian landing: What would be the point of the operation?

It would waste resources and manpower better used on other theatres of war. And you can forget any help from the locals (honestly guys, do you really think "liberating" the southern Italians from their own country will make them Entante-friendly? The concept is stupid at best). Plus, where would they land? They only have one shot at this and it has to be enough to bring Italy out of the war. Nibbling on parts of Italy is pointless. Going through Southern Italy to reach Northern Italy didnt even work for the WAllies. If the operation fails to bring Italy out of the war, then its another bleeding wound for the Entante.

EDIT: I really see no perticular reason why the Ottomans would not do the same thing they did IOTL.

It is not so different from the concentration of entente troops in Salonika OTL.
The Germans used to call it "our bigger POW prison".

Regarding motivations there's:
1) propaganda
2) racism ("it's good-for nothing lazy italians we are talking here, not real europeans! It will be a walk")
3) historical suggestions: Napoleon seems far far away to us but not so to a '14 french general
4) I-have-troops-and-I-want-do-something-with-them attitude.
I agree with you: some people think WWI is a table top strategy game where you can just randomly send a model that represents 20.000 men to any place on a map. Churchill for example was one of them (see: Gallipoli)

Regarding possibility of a friendly population greeting the invaders, I am afraid it is not as unlikely as you think: there are several levers (campanilism, religion, mafia) which could be pulled
 
It is not so different from the concentration of entente troops in Salonika OTL.

How is it not different? ITTL the Serbs are gone for good, the Austrians dont have a front with Italy and Greece is neutral. The Salonika troops would be put to better use supporting the fronts in the West. Plus, this preposed plan would involve an amphibious assult on the territory of a CP nation. Its much more analogous to Gallipoli then Salonika.

Regarding motivations there's:
1) propaganda
2) racism ("it's good-for nothing lazy italians we are talking here, not real europeans! It will be a walk")
3) historical suggestions: Napoleon seems far far away to us but not so to a '14 french general
4) I-have-troops-and-I-want-do-something-with-them attitude.

I can go with the fourth reason, but the first three look like your cherrypicking (something many people on this tread seem to do).

Either way shillinger`s point looks more convincing to me.

Regarding possibility of a friendly population greeting the invaders, I am afraid it is not as unlikely as you think: there are several levers (campanilism, religion, mafia) which could be pulled

This is the early 20th century. These "levers" you suggest would never be enough for Italians to greet foreign invaders conquering their country.
 
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