Mussolini is not overthrown and arrested or his successor stays with the axis .Italy stays in axis .how would the war go from that point. Would italy return to pre 1914 borders in Europe post war.would D-day happen later
They couldn't beat Ethiopia very little change.
They conquered Ethiopia in 1936
Read a book, buddy. They conquered it fairly easily.That was after intense militarization in the face of the consolidation of a jingoistic fascist regime.
This is also inaccurate. Much like with Austria-Hungary and Serbia in WW1, failure came about largely because of military incompetence, but the disparity in resources, manpower and industrial strength makes defeat inevitable for the smaller countries.I believe the statement should be Italy cannot even beat Greece solo.
I dont even think Italy is in the same league as Nazi Germany nor Japan even more so with the heavier weights like USA and USSR. We can say that even with all that military equipment, Italy is in the same league as Greece.
Italy staying in Axis would be irrelevant to the end game.
Read a book, buddy. They conquered it fairly easily.That was after intense militarization in the face of the consolidation of a jingoistic fascist regime.
Read a book, buddy. They conquered it fairly easily.
I think what he's trying to point out was that when Italy was a kingdom, they failed to conquer it, and it took higher levels of militarization to conquer it.
They failed to conquer it, not because they couldn't. They failed because it was poorly planned and the Abyssinians prepared for it. They bought modern equipment from the French and the British. They hired Russian officers to train them. They also outnumbered the Italians (who had roughly 18,000 men with half being pulled from the conscripts) by over 6 to 1 with 100,000 of them being armed with modern equipment. Aside from that, I agree. The Italians clearly weren't prepared for a modern war and staying in the war isn't going to seriously effect things.I think what he's trying to point out was that when Italy was a kingdom, they failed to conquer it, and it took higher levels of militarization to conquer it.
This is also inaccurate. Much like with Austria-Hungary and Serbia in WW1, failure came about largely because of military incompetence, but the disparity in resources, manpower and industrial strength makes defeat inevitable for the smaller countries.
It's irrelevant. Competence is important of course, but when the difference in size is that large (their population was 8 times larger, their gdp was 7 times larger etc.), defeat is inevitable.Competence is part of level of power. you cannot just sprout competent people in power if the people In power remains the same as per OP.
Regardless, the pod is irrelevant for the end game. I even doubt that Mussolini can even do anything about the American advances since they already had competent German help in otl. The amazing thing about US resources is the USA can fight in Italy and continue DDay just like in otl.
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Lastly, the invasion of Italy is going to be different. How different exactly depends on WHEN the Italian government decides to stick with Hitler.
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In this scenario, Rome probably falls around 6 months later than OTL and the Gothic line still isn't breached when Germany surrenders. Also, with Corsica not yet taken in '44, Op. Dragoon can't go ahead.
I agree with the decision date affecting things. Did game this out a couple times many years ago. Using the Italian Armies performance in Sicily as a guide I did not see much change. The morale and material condition was abysmal & the small number of good quality formations was hardly noticeable.
Corsica-Sardinia had a fairly high status on the Allied to do list. If the Italian mainland looks stronger then the pressure from Marshal, Churchill & others to invade the mainland may be resisted & the two islands moved back ahead in the schedule. The Axis ability to defend either is modified by the Allied ability to isolate them.