Italy and Japan enter WWII on the Allied side

If Italy and Japan join Britain and France vs Germany in 1939, how much shorter would WWII be?

  • The Fall of France would be prevented, Allies would win by 1941, before Soviet entry

    Votes: 29 46.0%
  • The Allies + USSR would win after pushing back Operation Barbarossa by 1942, before US mobilisation

    Votes: 2 3.2%
  • The Allies plus the USSR and the USA would win by 1943

    Votes: 2 3.2%
  • The Allies plus the USSR and the USA would win by 1944

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • It wouldn't make much difference from OTL - 1945

    Votes: 2 3.2%
  • It would take longer than OTL - 1946+

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The Allies would lose.

    Votes: 2 3.2%
  • WWII would be butterflied away if Italy and Japan were on the Allied side.

    Votes: 23 36.5%

  • Total voters
    63
for Italy end up as Allie, is a realistic option !

In begin Mussolini not like Hitler and NSDAP considering them as "Northern Barbarians"
A fact is the first state visit of Chancellor Hitler to Italy almost ended in Diplomatic fiasco!
Had Hitler not keep his volcanic temper not under control, Italy had become a enemy of Third Reich...
 
I agree that it is more realistic for Italy to be a friendly neutral or an outright ally to England and France that for Japan to be an ally unless some SERIOUS departures from OTL were followed.

Again, if Italy is not working for Germany, then Germany will deplete its forces that might be used in France in order to contain any advances and attacks from Italy.
 
Back on Japan as Allies
here in this forum was discussion about option Japan as Allies some time ago.
i notice there under different PODs, China could become member of Axis forces and Japan just like USSR could end up as Allies
like different outcome of 1936 Japanese military putsch were more moderate Politician survive the execution.
While the Japanese army is purge of Radical elements in Aftermath of the 1936 Putsch.
This could let to settle the dispute with USA, means no Pearl Harbor
on the Other side In China could establish a Pro German fraction
Like POD: Chiang Kai-shek goes to Germany Military Academy instead of Japan (almost happened)
Or another Chinese goes to Germany comes back and create a Analog of ruling NSDAP party in China !
There policy is strongly anti communist, anti Japanese

in this constellation Axis China would attack the USSR south east border, at the same time with Wehrmacht invade the USSR west border
for Axis China for two reason, one to help there Germans allies and cut Chinese communist from USSR supply
So Britain and other Allies will adopt the classical "The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend" politic and USSR become Allie like OTL
Also Imperial Japan that's enemy of Axis China here i believe that can become allies
or at least a Stalin Shōwa pact were were Japan help the USSR.
 
Without going into discussion about why and how, or why not and how not, if Italy and Japan remained allies with Britain and France after WWI and declared war on Germany in 1939 after its invasion of Poland, and the USSR and the USA enter as per OTL (the reason for their entry doesn't matter), how much quicker would it be to defeat Nazi Germany?

How would the Vatican react ?
 
There is a little problem in any attempt to stemroll Italy from the North, in reality two...the alps and the fortifified line there, basically a direct attack to the Maginot Line is less dangerous and there are no way to bypass them (even going through Jugoslavia mean just face another mountain line and another fortification line), plus the italian army was specified trained and equipped for defensive mountain fight. In the end the German can pass, it will need time and men, lot of time and lot of men and doing that mean that any attack at France (not the invasion just a simple attack) is out of the question.

Eh, true. Either way, it would be more interesting to see what happens after the war. The Russians might try something in China...
 
Either Hitler fortifies Austria and moves to ignore Italy (which might still be enough to prevent France from falling between the missing German divisions and extra French divisions pulled from down south), or he decides that Mussolini is a traitor and slams down against Italy; maybe he breaks the Alps (difficult), maybe he doesn't, but he surely bleeds the Wehrmacht white. No way Barbarossa is happening.
 
Top