Italico Valore - A more successful 1848 revolution in Italy - a TL

10. A BRIDGE TOO FAR?

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10. A BRIDGE TOO FAR?

On April 20th, exactly one month after the start of the war, the Italian-Piedmontese 1st Corps led by Carlo Alberto was wading the Brenta along the Fontaniva bridge. The army had arrived the evening of the day before and sent light units to the other side to secure the passage, while the bulk of the army camped along the shore to cross the next day. Making 45,000 men wade the bridge would not have been a quick feat and according to Bava's calculations it would have taken at least two days to wade the river. However, the troops proceeded quickly that morning, with about 10,000 men who had crossed the bridge by early afternoon.

The king had been among the first to cross the bridge, to symbolically put himself at the head of the army. The town closest to the ford was that of Cittadella, a village surrounded by medieval walls and Carlo Alberto sent General D'Arneaux, together with 6000 men, to the forefront. After all, they were not so far from Castelfranco where, according to the information in the possession of the Piedmontese, the Austrians had camped.

When the 6,000 Piedmontese arrived a kilometer from the city they were greeted by gunshots and cannons: the Austrians were already in the city and had entrenched themselves: D'Arneaux's troops were caught off guard, had not seen an Austrian for weeks, and panicked under enemy fire, preventing the general from rearranging his men and retreating. The arrival of the enemy cavalry that mowed the flanks of the division did not help and the general was forced to retreat not even twenty minutes after first contact. The Piedmontese withdrew in a disorganized way, many leaving backpacks and rifles on the spot, running towards the bridge to save their lives while being chased by the bulk of the Austrian army.

Carlo Alberto had established a command post in Fontaniva from which he could follow the ford of the army, when his attention was captured by the sounds of battle he heard not too far away, followed by the sound of retreat. The king rushed out of his tent to see the smoke on the horizon and the men who ran along the straight road that connects Fontaniva with Cittadella, running for their lives. Horrified, the king took his sword and sent for Bava, ordering him to prepare a defense, but it was too late: the Austrians hit the city like a swollen river and the Piedmontese defenders fought like lions to repel the enemy, while brigade after brigade crossed the bridge to throw bodies to oppose the enemy. At dusk the Italians had been rejected 500 meters from the bridge and would have been driven back over the Brenta if Giovanni Durando and the 8000 papal volunteers had not launched a bayonet charge on the left side of Von Westmeath. Aided by darkness and ferocity, the Austrians believed they were under attack by a wider force and broke the attack, retreating with the favor of darkness towards Lazzaretto.

durando.jpg

Durando and his men saved the day by charging the Austrians from the flank and allowing the main army to regroup

Surprised by the ferocity of the attack, Bava decided to transport as many soldiers as possible to the other side by ordering the troops to wade the bridge at night and sleep what they could: it was essential to bring the Piedmontese numerical superiority to the other side in order to use it as an advantage rather than as a disadvantage. Von Westmeath would have driven the Sardinians behind the Brenta if it had not been for Durando. The next day the two armies would face off against each other: the Piedmontese had 30,000 men, another 10,000 were still wading the river, while the Austrians had a similar number, but they were better attested. The second day proved to be inconclusive, if not to inflate the numbers of the losses: the Piedmontese had pushed three times towards Cittadella but had been repulsed all three times, without causing serious damage to the enemy army.

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Piedomntese infantry during the three attacks on Cittadella​

On the third day, while Bava and Carlo Alberto prepared the men for a new assault, major of Sanfront, head of the cavalry units of the carabinieri, proposed a plan to the king and the general: while the infantry occupied the Austrians by distracting them, the cavalry would have gone down along the river, wading in Carturo and would have gone up again taking the enemy off guard. The king approved the plan and so while the Piedmontese and Tuscan soldiers assaulted the Austrian positions, mowed by cannons and rifles, the carabinieri crossed the river and galloped back, overwhelming the first Austrian line on the south flank and creating disarray between the men who were swept away by the ferocious knights. With the first line broken, the Austrians began to retreat with the Piedmontese infantry galvanized by the success that followed them. The Austrians retreated to Tombolo and Bava decided that for that day it was enough, stopping the army and camping.

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The Carabinieri on horseback proved a very efficient cavalry unit during the war taking part in many battles and earning many medals
The fourth day was the decisive one: the Piedmontese had suffered serious losses between dead and wounded, mainly due to the Austrian artillery, but the Austrians had not been able to drive them back beyond the Brenta and had consumed many supplies. Early in the morning a messenger on horseback arrived and informed General Von Westmeath that the 2nd Piedmontese Corps had waded the Brenta further south and was marching towards Mirano to cover Venice. Time was against the Austrians, they had to drive Carlo Alberto back to the other side now otherwise De Sonnaz would have advanced far enough to shut down the escape route. The Austrian plan was simple: resist where they were by inflicting as many casualties as possible on the enemy and then carry out a final assault led by cavalry that would wipe out the exhausted troops, a bit like the Carabinieri did yesterday. Throughout the day, Bava and Carlo Alberto observed the waves of troops in dark blue coats crashing against the white-black rocks that always retreated in order to the next established line, leaving very little equipment but inflicting serious losses. The Bersaglieri of La Marmora had been kept in reserve for a final assault that at the moment seemed impossible. Around 5 o'clock the soldiers were tired and unhappy about being sent to the massacre against the lines, a state of mind that the Austrians noticed and the cavalry was ordered to overwhelm the Piedmontese. The Austrian dragons launched themselves against the Sardinian infantry, defeating it and paving the way for Carlo Alberto's command post. The king said "La Marmora, save us!" to which the colonel replied "I obey!" throwing his bersaglieri at the charge down the hill. The dragons found themselves in front of a flood of screaming men who fearlessly charged the horses. The Charge of Tombolo would enter the history of the Bersaglieri as one of the fundamental moments of the unit. The Bersaglieri routed the dragons and the rest of the army, seeing this feat of great courage, regained confidence and charged one last time following La Marmora with a drawn sword. Unfortunately for the colonel during the clashes an Austrian officer managed to shoot him in the face before being killed by the blade of La Marmora, who was seriously injured in the cheek and taken away, but the position was taken together with thousands of prisoners while Von Westmeath and the half of his men had managed to withdraw.

bersaglieri2.jpg

Led by their fearless commander LaMarmora, the Bersaglieri proved themselves one of the best light infantry units in the world by often being the last line of defense against the Austrians as it happened at Cittadella


With the victory in the battle of Cittadella, the Piedmontese had routed the Austrians who would no longer seek confrontation with the Italian armies now that they were running out of men and supplies. Von Westmeath was fleeing to Treviso and then from there Gorizia where he would meet the reinforcements but during the escape he ordered his men, those who had not deserted at least, to set fire to fields and villages to deny supplies to the enemy, starting the Looting of the Veneto.

Carlo Alberto had won his great battle but at great cost: about 10,000 Piedmontese remained on the field, most as injured but there were also many dead, observers will describe the battle of Cittadella several times as a real massacre in which it came to the melee very often. If it were not for the courage, skill and resourcefulness of Luigi Durando, Alessandro di Sanfont and Alessandro La Marmora, the Piedmontese would have been badly defeated. Cittadella is one of the examples in which a man can make the difference between victory and defeat and these future heroes of Italy will be celebrated by their king.
 
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Cittadella is one of the examples in which a man can make the difference between victory and defeat and these future heroes of Italy will be celebrated by their king.
Certainly, and with the same certainty D'Arneaux will be put in front of a court martial on charge of gross negligence. where he will be found guilty on all charges (he also did his best to be "decisive", just for the wrong side). I can understand you wanted a big, uncertain field battle for narrative purposes, but it is not possible that D'Arnaux marched his division toward Cittadella, blind, dumb and happy without sending some scout in advance. If he did such a thing, he should be shot and his name expunged from the army rolls. Mind, Bava should have done that as soon as he had some troops on the other side of the Brenta, so he's co-responsible for sure. I do also wonder why Nugent did allow the Piedmontese to cross the river unopposed, a very unusual behavior for an army in this tactical situation, or why he left the bridge intact.

Aside from that, the battle was well written.
 

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Certainly, and with the same certainty D'Arneaux will be put in front of a court martial on charge of gross negligence. where he will be found guilty on all charges (he also did his best to be "decisive", just for the wrong side). I can understand you wanted a big, uncertain field battle for narrative purposes, but it is not possible that D'Arnaux marched his division toward Cittadella, blind, dumb and happy without sending some scout in advance. If he did such a thing, he should be shot and his name expunged from the army rolls. Mind, Bava should have done that as soon as he had some troops on the other side of the Brenta, so he's co-responsible for sure. I do also wonder why Nugent did allow the Piedmontese to cross the river unopposed, a very unusual behavior for an army in this tactical situation, or why he left the bridge intact.

Aside from that, the battle was well written.
D'Arneaux didn't really charge in blind it was more like a recon in force which was ambushed by a much superior Austrian force that routed it easily due to the men being greenish and not entirely focused. D'Arneaux could have rallied the men but in a panic situation that becomes difficult and Bava well he was good but not that good and mistakes are made sometimes. I'm not saying that they're all clear and something will change after the war with the emergence of new leaders.

I figured that the Austrians would attack after inducing the Piedemontese in a false sense of tranquillity with an easy crossing, taking them by surprise (like it happened) and push them back across the bridge. Nugent would have won weren't it for Durando. And the Piedumontese took high casualties.
 
D'Arneaux didn't really charge in blind it was more like a recon in force which was ambushed by a much superior Austrian force that routed it easily due to the men being greenish and not entirely focused. D'Arneaux could have rallied the men but in a panic situation that becomes difficult and Bava well he was good but not that good and mistakes are made sometimes. I'm not saying that they're all clear and something will change after the war with the emergence of new leaders.

I figured that the Austrians would attack after inducing the Piedemontese in a false sense of tranquillity with an easy crossing, taking them by surprise (like it happened) and push them back across the bridge. Nugent would have won weren't it for Durando. And the Piedumontese took high casualties.
Piss poor generals, on both sides. As Carl von Clausewitz said, in war everything is quite simple and easy, but the fog of the war makes even the easiest things very difficult.
As far as d'Arneaux is concerned, even a reconoissance in force does not mean one doesn't need scouts.
 

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Is Piedmont strong enough to negotiate with the Austrians or the UK and France will need to add their weight to make the Empire comply?
 
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Is Piedmojt strong enough to negotiate with the Austrians or the UK and France will need to add their weight to make the Empire comply?
The second one is the right way to go. The British are the guys who mostly don't want the Austrian empire to collapse. For France, it'd very early times after the revolution: there is still the Provisional Government in charge, headed by Lamartine, and the first election post revolution will be at the end of April (coincidentally , the same date the Piedmontese first election will be held, and possibly also the date for the first election in Lombardy), and their main aims are to ensure a modicum of stability, to show that Republican France is not an expansionist monster and to have the new regime internationally and officially recognized. Therefore the French will support with the British policies, but with a sympathetic leaning for constitutional regimes (in particular, Piedmont, which is also a close neighbor, and Polish insurgents; they also don't want a vacuum in central Europe, and certainly don't want chaos in Italy). The negotiations will be held in London, as IOTL, and there will be a veritable procession of envoys going and coming from there. I would assume that the first item on the agenda will be a cease fire, and it will be not easy to agree on conditions. The most reasonable line might be the Piave (in any case Nugent has to retreat beyond the river), but with the condition that Austrian troops will not attack cities in the hands of insurgents, who will also be allowed to receive provisions.
This time around, it will be the case to have Cavour joining the Piedmontese delegation to London: he's familiar with both London and Paris, speaks perfect French and very good English, has personal friends among the top crust of both Paris and London, and is also very well introduced in financial circles (Piedmont will need loans, and quite fast). His friend Balbo, fresh of the laurels gained with the compromise in Lombardy, should be able to convince CA.
I also expect that Manin will send a couple of envoys to London, one of which might be Tommaseo, who is also good with languages and is well known and respected in European literary circles.
The provisional governments in Parma and Modena should also send envoys, but I'm not sure they will be allowed at the conference table.
I'm not really sure what the Pope would do: I'm pretty sure that Pius IX by this time is regretting even the limited involvement Papal troops had in the war. Maybe send an observer.
OTOH, my guess is that neither the Grandduke of Tuscany nor Ferdinand of Two Sicilies will send envoys.
It will be a very informal but also very effective negotiation, but I expect that the official delegations of the main players will sit together only when an agreement has been brokered.
 

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The second one is the right way to go. The British are the guys who mostly don't want the Austrian empire to collapse. For France, it'd very early times after the revolution: there is still the Provisional Government in charge, headed by Lamartine, and the first election post revolution will be at the end of April (coincidentally , the same date the Piedmontese first election will be held, and possibly also the date for the first election in Lombardy), and their main aims are to ensure a modicum of stability, to show that Republican France is not an expansionist monster and to have the new regime internationally and officially recognized. Therefore the French will support with the British policies, but with a sympathetic leaning for constitutional regimes (in particular, Piedmont, which is also a close neighbor, and Polish insurgents; they also don't want a vacuum in central Europe, and certainly don't want chaos in Italy). The negotiations will be held in London, as IOTL, and there will be a veritable procession of envoys going and coming from there. I would assume that the first item on the agenda will be a cease fire, and it will be not easy to agree on conditions. The most reasonable line might be the Piave (in any case Nugent has to retreat beyond the river), but with the condition that Austrian troops will not attack cities in the hands of insurgents, who will also be allowed to receive provisions.
This time around, it will be the case to have Cavour joining the Piedmontese delegation to London: he's familiar with both London and Paris, speaks perfect French and very good English, has personal friends among the top crust of both Paris and London, and is also very well introduced in financial circles (Piedmont will need loans, and quite fast). His friend Balbo, fresh of the laurels gained with the compromise in Lombardy, should be able to convince CA.
I also expect that Manin will send a couple of envoys to London, one of which might be Tommaseo, who is also good with languages and is well known and respected in European literary circles.
The provisional governments in Parma and Modena should also send envoys, but I'm not sure they will be allowed at the conference table.
I'm not really sure what the Pope would do: I'm pretty sure that Pius IX by this time is regretting even the limited involvement Papal troops had in the war. Maybe send an observer.
OTOH, my guess is that neither the Grandduke of Tuscany nor Ferdinand of Two Sicilies will send envoys.
It will be a very informal but also very effective negotiation, but I expect that the official delegations of the main players will sit together only when an agreement has been brokered.
So Piedmont could send an armistice proposal to Nugent who will relay it to Vienna to the attention of Prince Schwarzenberg and the two sides will agree on the temporary terms of the cease fire, then the British waltz in and invite everyone to London for a round of talks, backed by the French ( who could send some military forces, maybe led by Cavignac, to the border with Piedmont to suggest them to comply) and the two sides plus minor italian states reach a settlement in a few months.

The Papacy is not happy about the situation and the Pope is thinking about pulling back men and support even if the secular members of the Papal government are against this and something wpuld definitely happen ITTL if the pope recalls Durando. Also, I think that the Neapolitans should have reached Romagna by now...
 
So Piedmont could send an armistice proposal to Nugent who will relay it to Vienna to the attention of Prince Schwarzenberg and the two sides will agree on the temporary terms of the cease fire, then the British waltz in and invite everyone to London for a round of talks, backed by the French ( who could send some military forces, maybe led by Cavignac, to the border with Piedmont to suggest them to comply) and the two sides plus minor italian states reach a settlement in a few months.

The Papacy is not happy about the situation and the Pope is thinking about pulling back men and support even if the secular members of the Papal government are against this and something wpuld definitely happen ITTL if the pope recalls Durando. Also, I think that the Neapolitans should have reached Romagna by now...
What gives you the idea that British and French officers are not already attached to both the armies as observers? In any case, the key issue is if Nugent withdraws from the Veneto plain, crossing the Piave eastward. In such a case, there is no big pressure to achieve a cease fire, since the two armies are physically separated. What is likely to be negotiated by the two field commanders is a temporary ceasefire (48 hrs) to take care of dead and wounded, and possibly exchange prisoners.
In the meantime, the British have been dealing with the Austrian ambassador in London for at least a couple of weeks or more, and any news of additional insurgency in the empire or another Austrian defeat just added more pressure.
There is also the problem that Ferdinand is unfit to rule, and has always been under a regency council (which has obviously been weakened by the events of March and April, and the resignation of Metternich). IOTL, they dithered up to December, but the situation was improving day by day, while ITTL the arrow points in the opposite direction.

The Pope is certainly regretting his recent policies, and will pull out of the war, probably earlier than he did in out timeline.
The Papal troops will not obey the order to return: another weakening of the temporal power, another step towards a no return insurrection in the Legations (I could bet that the Papal authority in the Legations is already threadbare).
OTOH, Ferdinand of Naples will take the opportunity to call back his regiments, which he needs at home to deal with the insurrection in Sicily, which is still going on strongly. I guess that the Provisional Government in Palermo will offer the crown of Sicily to the younger son of CA (another Ferdinand, a very popular name for ruling houses with marital ties to the Habsburgs), only sooner (May, probably). Another headache for the diplomats in London, but a minor one compared to the main issue.
 
What gives you the idea that British and French officers are not already attached to both the armies as observers? In any case, the key issue is if Nugent withdraws from the Veneto plain, crossing the Piave eastward. In such a case, there is no big pressure to achieve a cease fire, since the two armies are physically separated. What is likely to be negotiated by the two field commanders is a temporary ceasefire (48 hrs) to take care of dead and wounded, and possibly exchange prisoners.
In the meantime, the British have been dealing with the Austrian ambassador in London for at least a couple of weeks or more, and any news of additional insurgency in the empire or another Austrian defeat just added more pressure.
There is also the problem that Ferdinand is unfit to rule, and has always been under a regency council (which has obviously been weakened by the events of March and April, and the resignation of Metternich). IOTL, they dithered up to December, but the situation was improving day by day, while ITTL the arrow points in the opposite direction.

The Pope is certainly regretting his recent policies, and will pull out of the war, probably earlier than he did in out timeline.
The Papal troops will not obey the order to return: another weakening of the temporal power, another step towards a no return insurrection in the Legations (I could bet that the Papal authority in the Legations is already threadbare).
OTOH, Ferdinand of Naples will take the opportunity to call back his regiments, which he needs at home to deal with the insurrection in Sicily, which is still going on strongly. I guess that the Provisional Government in Palermo will offer the crown of Sicily to the younger son of CA (another Ferdinand, a very popular name for ruling houses with marital ties to the Habsburgs), only sooner (May, probably). Another headache for the diplomats in London, but a minor one compared to the main issue.
I believe that TTL he is likely to accept (the same offer was made TTL, only he had to assume the regal name of Alberto Amedeo I) since OTL he did not want to leave the Piedmontese Army. Although the implications and ramifications are massive.
 
I believe that TTL he is likely to accept (the same offer was made TTL, only he had to assume the regal name of Alberto Amedeo I) since OTL he did not want to leave the Piedmontese Army. Although the implications and ramifications are massive.
One of the implications is that Ferdinand of Savoy will die in 1855, and I think there would be no change here (IIRC, it was a liver disease similar to the one who killed his father. I might be wrong though).
Another one is that IOTL he married in 1850 Elisabeth of Saxony, daughter of the king of Saxony. It was not a love marriage, since it happened for dynastic reasons, but the couple had two children (Margherita Maria, born in 1851, and Tommaso Alberto, born in 1854. Now, there are two possibilities: the most obvious one is that the reasons of state that suggested the marriage tie with Saxony would still be paramount, and Ferdinand still marries Elisabeth (possibly as early as 1849, since the need to procreate quickly is there); the other possibility is that, having become a king and free of the pressure of his brother VEII, he marries someone else (but the list of possible matches is quite limited, since Habsburg and both Bourbon strains are out of the question).
Ferdinand's marriage has a lot of implications, since his first born child will become king (or queen, the crown of Sicily doesn't follow the Salic law) of Sicily, and there will be quite a long regency in any case. Incidentally, even if Ferdinand marries Elisabeth on the same date, there is no chance that he'll get the same two children he got IOTL (just to start, he'll be living in Palermo and not in Turin). I guess that if he marries Elisabeth, the marriage will still produce issues (but not the same girl and boy of IOTL, and remember that Margherita would marry Umberto, crown prince of Italy, which means that there will be a major change for Italian history, since Umberto will marry someone else: all to the good, since Margherita was not a positive influence at all, not on her husband and not on the country of which she was queen).
The problem is that Ferdinand needs a fertile wife, and if he makes the wrong choice, his line of the Savoy dynasty will end pretty soon.

While I was reading up a bit about Ferdinand, I did find two interesting piece of news.
The first is that the idea of offering the crown of Sicily to Ferdinand came up earlier than I thought. The Sicilian parliament proclaimed the independence of the island on 13 April 1848, and pretty soon the rumor that Ferdinand was the preferred choice spread quickly, and not just in Italy. Queen Victoria on May 4 gave an informal comment stating that she would look with favor to Ferdinand getting the crown of Sicily "provided he would succeed in taking possess of the island".
The second is that on July 10 the Sicilian parliament officially offered the crown to Ferdinand and on July 16 count Thaon de Revel, finance minister of CA between 1844 and 1848, wrote that " l’Angleterre nous engage vivament à accepter et déclare qu’elle reconnaîtra immédiatement le nouveau Roi" (England strongly advises us to accept, and declares that the new king will be immediately recognized). Apparently France was much less sanguine about the idea (which is why the court of Turin was for a time reluctant to pursue this opportunity, but it is clear that in the end France will bow and follow London's lead, the more so given the much stronger position of Piedmont ITTL.
Anyway, ITTL the time table will be more compressed, and Ferdinand might be crowned in Palermo in June 1848.
This would (hopefully) result in Ferdinand looking for a bride in the second half of 1848, and marrying in the spring of 1849 (before the death of his father and the mandatory mourning period). I do wonder if there might not be a suitable British princess, given Queen Victoria's apparent sympathy for him.
 
One of the implications is that Ferdinand of Savoy will die in 1855, and I think there would be no change here (IIRC, it was a liver disease similar to the one who killed his father. I might be wrong though).
Another one is that IOTL he married in 1850 Elisabeth of Saxony, daughter of the king of Saxony. It was not a love marriage, since it happened for dynastic reasons, but the couple had two children (Margherita Maria, born in 1851, and Tommaso Alberto, born in 1854. Now, there are two possibilities: the most obvious one is that the reasons of state that suggested the marriage tie with Saxony would still be paramount, and Ferdinand still marries Elisabeth (possibly as early as 1849, since the need to procreate quickly is there); the other possibility is that, having become a king and free of the pressure of his brother VEII, he marries someone else (but the list of possible matches is quite limited, since Habsburg and both Bourbon strains are out of the question).
Ferdinand's marriage has a lot of implications, since his first born child will become king (or queen, the crown of Sicily doesn't follow the Salic law) of Sicily, and there will be quite a long regency in any case. Incidentally, even if Ferdinand marries Elisabeth on the same date, there is no chance that he'll get the same two children he got IOTL (just to start, he'll be living in Palermo and not in Turin). I guess that if he marries Elisabeth, the marriage will still produce issues (but not the same girl and boy of IOTL, and remember that Margherita would marry Umberto, crown prince of Italy, which means that there will be a major change for Italian history, since Umberto will marry someone else: all to the good, since Margherita was not a positive influence at all, not on her husband and not on the country of which she was queen).
The problem is that Ferdinand needs a fertile wife, and if he makes the wrong choice, his line of the Savoy dynasty will end pretty soon.

While I was reading up a bit about Ferdinand, I did find two interesting piece of news.
The first is that the idea of offering the crown of Sicily to Ferdinand came up earlier than I thought. The Sicilian parliament proclaimed the independence of the island on 13 April 1848, and pretty soon the rumor that Ferdinand was the preferred choice spread quickly, and not just in Italy. Queen Victoria on May 4 gave an informal comment stating that she would look with favor to Ferdinand getting the crown of Sicily "provided he would succeed in taking possess of the island".
The second is that on July 10 the Sicilian parliament officially offered the crown to Ferdinand and on July 16 count Thaon de Revel, finance minister of CA between 1844 and 1848, wrote that " l’Angleterre nous engage vivament à accepter et déclare qu’elle reconnaîtra immédiatement le nouveau Roi" (England strongly advises us to accept, and declares that the new king will be immediately recognized). Apparently France was much less sanguine about the idea (which is why the court of Turin was for a time reluctant to pursue this opportunity, but it is clear that in the end France will bow and follow London's lead, the more so given the much stronger position of Piedmont ITTL.
Anyway, ITTL the time table will be more compressed, and Ferdinand might be crowned in Palermo in June 1848.
This would (hopefully) result in Ferdinand looking for a bride in the second half of 1848, and marrying in the spring of 1849 (before the death of his father and the mandatory mourning period). I do wonder if there might not be a suitable British princess, given Queen Victoria's apparent sympathy for him.
We have been reading the same things, it would seem. For his match, I have two ideas (don't know how feasible they would be). In 1845 he was considered as a match for Archduchess Olga of Russia, for whom he fell in love. I could not find if she's already married to someone else (probably not) but now being his own king, he might well go for it, without asking for the girl to convert (which OTL was the cause for the match non to happen). A British match would be interesting and maybe the best option. VE was considered for a British match OTL (can't remember who) but the bride-to-be firmly rejected him. Ferdinand would have quite a different response, I would guess.
 
We have been reading the same things, it would seem. For his match, I have two ideas (don't know how feasible they would be). In 1845 he was considered as a match for Archduchess Olga of Russia, for whom he fell in love. I could not find if she's already married to someone else (probably not) but now being his own king, he might well go for it, without asking for the girl to convert (which OTL was the cause for the match non to happen). A British match would be interesting and maybe the best option. VE was considered for a British match OTL (can't remember who) but the bride-to-be firmly rejected him. Ferdinand would have quite a different response, I would guess.
Yes, I know the story. Unfortunately, it was before the POD (and cannot be strictly allowed), CA would never have accepted an Orthodox daughter-in-law (nor the Pope would have granted a dispensation) and finally being tied by in-law relation to the Czar might be too much of a baggage. It's better that this romantic story never came to bloom. Anyway, Olga met (and fell in love - again! ) Charles, son and heir of the king of Wurttenberg. They married in 1846, and apparently was a successful, happy and fruitful marriage.

The prospective bride that VE went to London to woo was Victoria, who didn't find him congenial at all (and VE's visit was quite an embarrassment, for him. Let's say that the British aristocracy considered him ignorant, uncouth and rude).
 
Yes, I know the story. Unfortunately, it was before the POD (and cannot be strictly allowed), CA would never have accepted an Orthodox daughter-in-law (nor the Pope would have granted a dispensation) and finally being tied by in-law relation to the Czar might be too much of a baggage. It's better that this romantic story never came to bloom. Anyway, Olga met (and fell in love - again! ) Charles, son and heir of the king of Wurttenberg. They married in 1846, and apparently was a successful, happy and fruitful marriage.

The prospective bride that VE went to London to woo was Victoria, who didn't find him congenial at all (and VE's visit was quite an embarrassment, for him. Let's say that the British aristocracy considered him ignorant, uncouth and rude).
Oh, I see. Yes, apparently no one besides the "Bela Rosin" liked VE. I have been listening to lectures on him recently (by Alessandro Barbero) and apparently the best thing he had to say about him was that "did not commit terrible mistakes". I really like the idea of having Ferdinand as King of Sicily, although probably a foreign bride will wait to see how strong is his hold on the throne. How would a Sicilian match go? Would it be a mess or could it help in increasing his popularity? And who could he marry, if this is the case?
 

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Just a small correction...everyone born after the the 20th of March 1848 OTL will not ITTL due to the butterfly effect but we're too early in the atory for this to be relevant.
 
Oh, I see. Yes, apparently no one besides the "Bela Rosin" liked VE. I have been listening to lectures on him recently (by Alessandro Barbero) and apparently the best thing he had to say about him was that "did not commit terrible mistakes". I really like the idea of having Ferdinand as King of Sicily, although probably a foreign bride will wait to see how strong is his hold on the throne. How would a Sicilian match go? Would it be a mess or could it help in increasing his popularity? And who could he marry, if this is the case?
I would be more scathing in my indictment of VEII, but that is a discussion for another day.
IMHO, I believe that marrying into the Sicilian nobility would be a mistake for Ferdinand. It would risk creating a bunch of favorites at court (the in-laws of the king) which would alienate the rest of the nobility and be potentially disastrous during the long regency. Not to mention it would not bring any advantage on the diplomatic side. I also freely admit I've no idea who might be a suitable candidate among the Sicilian nobility.
There is a (theoretical) candidate in Tuscany: Archduchess Maria Isabella of Austria, daughter of Leopold of Tuscany. IOTL she married her uncle, prince Francis of Bourbon Naples in 1850. Her mother was another Bourbon Naples, so it'd be politically a very hot potato and I'm not sure if it would work. Maria Isabella's loyalties would be pulling her in all directions, and it might not be a good thing during the long regency.
My take is that a marriage in the Saxe Coburg Gotha or the Saxe Coburg Anhalt families would be more advantageous to exploit the British support (Albert was a Saxe Coburg Gotha, Victoria's uncle Leopold of Belgium was a Saxe Coburg Anhalt). It would also bring new blood in the dynasty (while Maria Isabella is Ferdinand's aunt), and what Sicily needs is new ideas and developments coming from Europe, not festering in the little pond of Italian states.
Ferdinand was in a way the exact opposite of his brother, a studious youngster with a gift for mathematics. If his wife-to-be is also interested in science and progress it will be a great help.
 
I would be more scathing in my indictment of VEII, but that is a discussion for another day.
IMHO, I believe that marrying into the Sicilian nobility would be a mistake for Ferdinand. It would risk creating a bunch of favorites at court (the in-laws of the king) which would alienate the rest of the nobility and be potentially disastrous during the long regency. Not to mention it would not bring any advantage on the diplomatic side. I also freely admit I've no idea who might be a suitable candidate among the Sicilian nobility.
There is a (theoretical) candidate in Tuscany: Archduchess Maria Isabella of Austria, daughter of Leopold of Tuscany. IOTL she married her uncle, prince Francis of Bourbon Naples in 1850. Her mother was another Bourbon Naples, so it'd be politically a very hot potato and I'm not sure if it would work. Maria Isabella's loyalties would be pulling her in all directions, and it might not be a good thing during the long regency.
My take is that a marriage in the Saxe Coburg Gotha or the Saxe Coburg Anhalt families would be more advantageous to exploit the British support (Albert was a Saxe Coburg Gotha, Victoria's uncle Leopold of Belgium was a Saxe Coburg Anhalt). It would also bring new blood in the dynasty (while Maria Isabella is Ferdinand's aunt), and what Sicily needs is new ideas and developments coming from Europe, not festering in the little pond of Italian states.
Ferdinand was in a way the exact opposite of his brother, a studious youngster with a gift for mathematics. If his wife-to-be is also interested in science and progress it will be a great help.
I agree with you. Although I am struggling to find a good match, especially age-wise. The best candidate I could find is Princess Adelaide, Queen Victoria's niece (OTL Napoleon III proposed her in 1852), but she was only 14 in 1849. Too young at so many levels. Although the marriage could be celebrated in 1851, when she is 16, giving time to Ferdinand to secure his grip on the Sicilian throne.
 
I agree with you. Although I am struggling to find a good match, especially age-wise. The best candidate I could find is Princess Adelaide, Queen Victoria's niece (OTL Napoleon III proposed her in 1852), but she was only 14 in 1849. Too young at so many levels. Although the marriage could be celebrated in 1851, when she is 16, giving time to Ferdinand to secure his grip on the Sicilian throne.
Princess Adelaide would be a good dynastic match, but she should be at least a couple years older, and I note she gave birth to a single female child (Karoline Mathilde of Schleswig-Holstein, who went on to marry Wilhelm II). I don't know if she had problems with the birth, but I'd prefer someone more obviously fertile. She also married only in 1856, which was late for aristocracy. I do wonder why.
I'm sure that there are other more suitable candidates in the Saxe-Coburg tribe, and being closely related to Albert or Leopold of Belgium is as good as being the niece of Victoria.
 
Princess Adelaide would be a good dynastic match, but she should be at least a couple years older, and I note she gave birth to a single female child (Karoline Mathilde of Schleswig-Holstein, who went on to marry Wilhelm II). I don't know if she had problems with the birth, but I'd prefer someone more obviously fertile. She also married only in 1856, which was late for aristocracy. I do wonder why.
I'm sure that there are other more suitable candidates in the Saxe-Coburg tribe, and being closely related to Albert or Leopold of Belgium is as good as being the niece of Victoria.
Adelaide had an elder sister, Princess Elise, who would be of the right age (born 1830) but died in 1850. Could not find the reason of her death, though.
 
@LordKalvan : I will not comment on anything else BUT you know who Victoria and Albert were first cousins and who Leopold of Belgium was their shared uncle? Any relative of Leopold is also a relative of both Victoria and Albert
 
@LordKalvan : I will not comment on anything else BUT you know who Victoria and Albert were first cousins and who Leopold of Belgium was their shared uncle? Any relative of Leopold is also a relative of both Victoria and Albert
I freely admit that genealogy is not my strongest suit, and the marital habits of the Saxe Coburg were particularly intricate.
Therefore I've no problem in admitting that I may have missed the fact that Leopold was the brother of QV's mother, as well as of PA's father. However, Leopold precedes by a generation both Victoria and Albert.
In any case, what it really matters is that Victoria would see with favor a marriage of Ferdinand with a German princess, the more so one coming from one of the multiple Saxe Coburg lines, but most likely also if Ferdinand chooses to marry Elisabeth of Saxony (who unsurprisingly is also a distant relative, descending from the Albertine line of the Wettins. The Saxe Coburg descend from the Ernestine line of the Wettins, if I'm not mistaken again).
My objections to Maria Isabella were mostly political, while there was not much love lost between Elisabeth and Ferdinand, and additionally Elisabeth's behavior after Ferdinand's death IOTL does not inspire me with confidence at the idea of her being the Dowager Queen of Sicily with influence on the regency council.
 
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