Italico Valore - A more successful 1848 revolution in Italy - a TL

There are a couple of other mistakes in the map, besides what @Tarabas pointed out.
Gaeta and its surroundings is the the kingdom of Naples, not in Latium as it appears (nowadays Gaeta is in Latium, and what is shown on the map is the modern administrative border, but the change happened only in the late 1920s, after the reclamation of the Pontine marshes). Romagna should be included in the Principality of Adria, to balance things a little better. I don't understand the survival of the kingdom of Lombardy-Venetia: the referendum in Lombardy (and the one held a bit later in Veneto) returned an overwhelming approval for annexation to Sardinia (incidentally, when CA dies, VE gets crowned king of Sardinia, not king of Piedmont), so there is no reason to maintain the government structure that Metternich set up after the Congress of Vienna.
There are however reasons to have a duchy of Milan (governing Lombardy) and a duchy of Verona (governing Veneto and Friuli up to the border): there would be a single parliament in Turin for all of Italy north of the Po (which would facilitate the integration in terms of infrastructures) plus Liguria and Sardinia; having Milan as both the capital of a kingdom and the capital of the Confederation would be too much (Milan will increase anyway in importance on its own, for geographical and economic reasons); it would avoid antagonizing the people of Veneto, which had been governed from the Austrian viceroy in Milan, and would not see any improvement on the past.

There is another very practical reason too: if Lombardy and Venetia are integral part of Sardinia, Cavour could well follow his habit of keeping multiple portfolios, starting as minister for Commerce and Finance (which are two very critical things to improve) for both Sardinia and the Confederation, with Balbo Prime Minister of both (same as Bismarck did IOTL, with Prussia and the NGC first and the Reich after 1870). When Balbo dies or retires, Cavour will smoothly step into its shoes. If there is a separate kingdom of L-V, all this becomes much more awkward (not to mention that diluting the importance of Piedmont and Savoy by the addition of two populous region would be a good thing in itself).

I also fail to understand the reason to give CA an extra 6 years of life: leaving aside the fact that CA's death was caused by liver failure (which cannot be cured or even improved by his better performance in the war) and not by a "broken heart", as the romantic legend goes, keeping him alive longer does not help the narrative (apparently he doesn't do anything worth of mention in these extra years) and put on hold for an extra 6 years a lot of thing, such as Cavour's political career and the economic development of Northern Italy (the years between 1849 and 1852, when he became PM, were very productive in terms of boosting commerce and starting infrastructures).

A last nitpick: the first thing VE should do after getting crowned is a tour of the Confederation members. He still needs a minder to go with him, the man was a bit of a rough diamond
Totally agree. Maybe the enlarged Kingdom of Sardinia could be renamed "Kingdom of Northern Italy" or of "Upper Italy" (Regno dell'Alta Italia). After all, this was OTL Plombiéres agreement, the only difference being the border at the Tagliamento and not at the Isonzo. Also, from the outside, it looks that the Confederation is a unitary state. Granted, Cavour was the best politician of the time and the other members of the Confederation have little to no power of negotiation, but one would expect at least some bickering/confrontation between the local governments and the Confederal one.
 
Totally agree. Maybe the enlarged Kingdom of Sardinia could be renamed "Kingdom of Northern Italy" or of "Upper Italy" (Regno dell'Alta Italia). After all, this was OTL Plombiéres agreement, the only difference being the border at the Tagliamento and not at the Isonzo. Also, from the outside, it looks that the Confederation is a unitary state. Granted, Cavour was the best politician of the time and the other members of the Confederation have little to no power of negotiation, but one would expect at least some bickering/confrontation between the local governments and the Confederal one.
Too quick, too fast. The crown of Sardinia is an historical one, there is no need to invent another one (also while I want to take down Piedmont and its aristocracy a notch or two, I don't want to antagonize them on things which are not really important). I said a few days ago that IOTL things went not very good after unification for a number of reasons (money, Cavour's death, French influence, Pius IX, just to mention a few of them), but also because it was too sudden. As an exercise of exploring historical alternatives, let's try to follow a different path: which is bring the different parts of the peninsula together, but without forcing them into the straightjacket of the unitary state patterned on the French model. The other members of the Confederation have not a lot of influence, true, but have been granted a significant regional autonomy. If things work, this will bring Italians together, make them used to interact with each other: once again, let's make Italians before making Italy, and once they are on the right path, let's them have a saying in what kind of Italy they want for the future. Of course the Confederation works because there is a big guy with a stick to keep the different members on the straight and narrow, but there is also the carrot of economical and social progress, of moving forward in a way that will positively impact a very large number of people (infrastructures, industrialization and land reform). The bickering is a given, but Cavour was quite used to political bickering in the Subalpine parliament too, and he always managed. He had to juggle a great number of balls IOTL too, but -if I may use an analogy - ITTL his hands are stronger and his feet are planted on a much more solid foundation.
 

Deleted member 147289

When I have time I'll run through your suggestions, feel free to leave them.
 

Deleted member 147289

There are a couple of other mistakes in the map, besides what @Tarabas pointed out.
Gaeta and its surroundings is the the kingdom of Naples, not in Latium as it appears (nowadays Gaeta is in Latium, and what is shown on the map is the modern administrative border, but the change happened only in the late 1920s, after the reclamation of the Pontine marshes). Romagna should be included in the Principality of Adria, to balance things a little better. I don't understand the survival of the kingdom of Lombardy-Venetia: the referendum in Lombardy (and the one held a bit later in Veneto) returned an overwhelming approval for annexation to Sardinia (incidentally, when CA dies, VE gets crowned king of Sardinia, not king of Piedmont), so there is no reason to maintain the government structure that Metternich set up after the Congress of Vienna.
There are however reasons to have a duchy of Milan (governing Lombardy) and a duchy of Verona (governing Veneto and Friuli up to the border): there would be a single parliament in Turin for all of Italy north of the Po (which would facilitate the integration in terms of infrastructures) plus Liguria and Sardinia; having Milan as both the capital of a kingdom and the capital of the Confederation would be too much (Milan will increase anyway in importance on its own, for geographical and economic reasons); it would avoid antagonizing the people of Veneto, which had been governed from the Austrian viceroy in Milan, and would not see any improvement on the past.

There is another very practical reason too: if Lombardy and Venetia are integral part of Sardinia, Cavour could well follow his habit of keeping multiple portfolios, starting as minister for Commerce and Finance (which are two very critical things to improve) for both Sardinia and the Confederation, with Balbo Prime Minister of both (same as Bismarck did IOTL, with Prussia and the NGC first and the Reich after 1870). When Balbo dies or retires, Cavour will smoothly step into its shoes. If there is a separate kingdom of L-V, all this becomes much more awkward (not to mention that diluting the importance of Piedmont and Savoy by the addition of two populous region would be a good thing in itself).

I also fail to understand the reason to give CA an extra 6 years of life: leaving aside the fact that CA's death was caused by liver failure (which cannot be cured or even improved by his better performance in the war) and not by a "broken heart", as the romantic legend goes, keeping him alive longer does not help the narrative (apparently he doesn't do anything worth of mention in these extra years) and put on hold for an extra 6 years a lot of thing, such as Cavour's political career and the economic development of Northern Italy (the years between 1849 and 1852, when he became PM, were very productive in terms of boosting commerce and starting infrastructures).

A last nitpick: the first thing VE should do after getting crowned is a tour of the Confederation members. He still needs a minder to go with him, the man was a bit of a rough diamond
About CA you're right I thought he died in 1855 but I was mistaken. I have rectified the Lombardy-Venetia thing by the way, I'd like to make it crystal clear: Sardinia-Piedmont is now composed of it's original territory, Lombardy, Venice and the United Provinces. I'm not gonna get headaches to justify in an administrative and politcal way this so take it for how it is, a large kingdom in northern Italy. Cavour becoming Prime Minister of the Confederation is a great success and has a much bigger base.

Too quick, too fast. The crown of Sardinia is an historical one, there is no need to invent another one (also while I want to take down Piedmont and its aristocracy a notch or two, I don't want to antagonize them on things which are not really important). I said a few days ago that IOTL things went not very good after unification for a number of reasons (money, Cavour's death, French influence, Pius IX, just to mention a few of them), but also because it was too sudden. As an exercise of exploring historical alternatives, let's try to follow a different path: which is bring the different parts of the peninsula together, but without forcing them into the straightjacket of the unitary state patterned on the French model. The other members of the Confederation have not a lot of influence, true, but have been granted a significant regional autonomy. If things work, this will bring Italians together, make them used to interact with each other: once again, let's make Italians before making Italy, and once they are on the right path, let's them have a saying in what kind of Italy they want for the future. Of course the Confederation works because there is a big guy with a stick to keep the different members on the straight and narrow, but there is also the carrot of economical and social progress, of moving forward in a way that will positively impact a very large number of people (infrastructures, industrialization and land reform). The bickering is a given, but Cavour was quite used to political bickering in the Subalpine parliament too, and he always managed. He had to juggle a great number of balls IOTL too, but -if I may use an analogy - ITTL his hands are stronger and his feet are planted on a much more solid foundation.

States have autonomy but the Confederation has more power. It's not a centralized state like France but it's not a decentralized one either. There is a constitution and a State's chamber (the Senate) and states can manage local politics which are not under the umbrella of the Confederation.
 
I'd like to make it crystal clear: Sardinia-Piedmont is now composed of it's original territory, Lombardy, Venice and the United Provinces. I'm not gonna get headaches to justify in an administrative and politcal way this so take it for how it is, a large kingdom in northern Italy. Cavour becoming Prime Minister of the Confederation is a great success and has a much bigger base.
You are mixing up Venice (the Republic of San Marco) and the mainland of Veneto up to Tagliamento.
Don't know why you have included the UPs, which were a separate province until now.
Cavour needs to be PM in both Sardinia and the Confederation to be really effective in his policies (same as Bismarck did in Prussia and the German Confederation/Empire). If the government of Sardinia works at odds with the Confederal government, it is a problem.
 

Deleted member 147289

You are mixing up Venice (the Republic of San Marco) and the mainland of Veneto up to Tagliamento.
Don't know why you have included the UPs, which were a separate province until now.
Cavour needs to be PM in both Sardinia and the Confederation to be really effective in his policies (same as Bismarck did in Prussia and the German Confederation/Empire). If the government of Sardinia works at odds with the Confederal government, it is a problem.
The Confederal Parliament is undeer the control of Sardinia and since the establishment of the Confederation it has become the main legislative body. An in depth discussion is beyond the scope of this TL and my capabilities on the matter since the Confederation is only a stopgap before unification. So take this as "Cavour becomes Prime Minister and does his thing not only in S-P but in all Italy except Two Sicilies". Anyway if you can tell me how Cavour could juggle being PM of both S-P and IC I'm all ears

About Venice you're right sorry about that. The UPs are under Sardinia since their monarch's haven't been restored after the revolution and were later annexed to S-P
 
Well them being the tax collector of the Papal States really hurt their popularity in general
Yeah, that is very true. Do you know why tax collectors were specifically chosen there? I suppose it has to do with loyalty to the Pope, and probably not going to war over salt... Gosh, I had not thought about that. An AH over the salt war (pick your favorite) would be lots of fun...
 
Yeah, that is very true. Do you know why tax collectors were specifically chosen there? I suppose it has to do with loyalty to the Pope, and probably not going to war over salt... Gosh, I had not thought about that. An AH over the salt war (pick your favorite) would be lots of fun...
I've heard multiple times it was about them being chosen among his co-regionists by Pope Sixtus V during his administrative reform of the Papal States. I think he specifically picked from his flock in his former archdiocese of Fermo (he was from nearby Grottammare) so I'd guess they were loyal to him (Fermo had a special place in the Early Modern Papal States as its governor was invariably chosen among the closest kin of the ruling Pope, particularly if they happened to be Cardinals, which was frequently the case).
 
I've heard multiple times it was about them being chosen among his co-regionists by Pope Sixtus V during his administrative reform of the Papal States. I think he specifically picked from his flock in his former archdiocese of Fermo (he was from nearby Grottammare) so I'd guess they were loyal to him (Fermo had a special place in the Early Modern Papal States as its governor was invariably chosen among the closest kin of the ruling Pope, particularly if they happened to be Cardinals, which was frequently the case).
That's an interesting piece of information, thank you for sharing this!
 
Anyway if you can tell me how Cavour could juggle being PM of both S-P and IC I'm all ears
He can very easily, because Italy is a Confederation, and not a Federation. The Confederal parliament is mostly a place where the disputes between members are adjudicated and mediated, where things like a common system of measurement and weights is discussed, and it is not going to be continuously in session. At this stage of the story, the places where legislation is put forward are the members' parliaments (and in particular, the Subalpine Parliament in Turin, being Sardinia the obvious alpha dog of the Confederation).
I do find strange this worry about overloading Cavour, who was a glutton for work and for many years had the portfolios of Commerce, Finance and Foreign Affairs in his hands, in addition to the Premiership (and proved that he could and would juggle all his balls without letting any of them crash).

I would also bring back again the issue of the UPs: the idea was to have different forms of government and test the pluses and the minuses of these different approach. If the UPs are incorporated into Sardinia, this is no more possible: there would be 4 constitutional monarchies (Sardinia, Tuscany, Sicily and Adria), one republic in Rome (which in today's terms would be judged to the left) and one midget republic in Venice (a more bourgeois one). Considering that the king of Sardinia is also the monarch (in personal union) of Adria, it could be described as Snow White, three dwarfs and a midget. Not much of a fig leaf for the Confederation, isn't it? Mazzini and Saffi might even be reluctant to petition for admission in this setting. Having a liberal republic in Emilia balances things a little better, and hints that Italy will not be a Piedmont-on-steroids as it happened IOTL.
 
I would also bring back again the issue of the UPs: the idea was to have different forms of government and test the pluses and the minuses of these different approach. If the UPs are incorporated into Sardinia, this is no more possible: there would be 4 constitutional monarchies (Sardinia, Tuscany, Sicily and Adria), one republic in Rome (which in today's terms would be judged to the left) and one midget republic in Venice (a more bourgeois one). Considering that the king of Sardinia is also the monarch (in personal union) of Adria, it could be described as Snow White, three dwarfs and a midget. Not much of a fig leaf for the Confederation, isn't it? Mazzini and Saffi might even be reluctant to petition for admission in this setting. Having a liberal republic in Emilia balances things a little better, and hints that Italy will not be a Piedmont-on-steroids as it happened IOTL.
Don't forget San Marino! (If they ever get absorbed that is)
 

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Chapter 18 has been edited along with a more precise map.

Once again I thank every single one of you boys and girls who takes the time to read my small TL and review it, often leaving insightful comments and interesting alternatives, sometimes sparking discussions that will always bring a smile on my face (as long as you're not insulting me!) seeing the interest in my small projects. I will never get tired of repeating that I'm an amateur and make mistakes and thankfully you're here to correct me. Next chapter will come tomorrow.
 
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