Italian War Concessions?

Just for fun, I ran Khan's post through Google Translate. I hope it gives some idea of what was said...

Trentini hours I do not even think the Italians. Quite offensive to those who wish to celebrate the sesquicentennial of the Unit of Italy.
As far as Trieste and Istria, Italians have always been considered territories, D'Annunzio freed River because it was River and is an Italian city.
In Africa we have before us Italians "conquered" territories which only later, during the African campaign of the allies, we decided to "give back" to the Allies ... many Italian masters, rather than face the harsh expected losses in case of resistance against the enemy, in all conscience have decided to sell the station to control and allied commanders in accordance with the rules of war then in force. Of course, the Fascist regime in Italy has never approved, but no matter, the losses we have suffered so much there is to rejoice that those commanders have acted that way.
In this period there is much discussion, there is a kind of Memorial Day, to remember how many Italians were thrown into Foibe by Yugoslavs in the wake of passage of Istria and Dalmatia to Yugoslavia. 3-400000 people among whom not only men but also women and children, have died in those caves of the Karst region.
It was one of the many tragedies that happened to Italy after the amnesty granted to us by the Allies to "avoid further suffering" ... we still have no accurate estimate of people who perished in the wake of the consequences of the Italian surrender.
 

Eurofed

Banned
I Trentini ora nemmeno si credono Italiani. Abbastanza offensivo per coloro i quali desiderano festeggiare il centocinquantesimo dell'Unità di Italia.
Per quanto riguarda Trieste e l'Istria, sono da sempre considerati territori Italiani, D'Annunzio liberò Fiume perchè Fiume era ed è una città Italiana.
In Africa noi Italiani abbiamo prima "conquistato" dei territori che solo in seguito, durante la campagna Africana degli alleati, abbiamo deciso di "restituire" agli alleati... moltissimi comandanti Italiani, piuttosto che affrontare le dure perdite previste in caso di resistenza contro i nemici, hanno deciso in tutta coscienza di cedere il comando e la postazione ai comandanti alleati secondo le regole di guerra allora vigenti. Certo il regime fascista qui in Italia non ha mai approvato, ma poco importa, di perdite ne abbiamo subite così tante che c'è da rallegrarsi del fatto che quei comandanti abbiano agito in quel modo.
In questo periodo si discute molto, c'è una sorta di Giornata della Memoria, per ricordare quanti Italiani sono stati gettati nelle Foibe dagli Jugoslavi al seguito del passaggio dell'Istria e la Dalmazia alla Jugoslavia. 3-400.000 persone tra le quali non solo uomini, ma anche donne e bambini, hanno trovato la morte in quelle caverne del Carso triestino.
Fu una delle tante tragedie che capitarono all'Italia al seguito dell'amnistia concessaci dagli Alleati per "evitarci ulteriori sofferenze"... non abbiamo ancora una stima precisa delle persone che perirono al seguito delle conseguenze della resa Italiana.

Best-effort translation of mine:

"Even nowadays, South Tyrol folks do not deem themselves Italians. It is rather offensives for those who wish to celebrate 150 years of a united Italy. As it concersn Trieste and Istria, they have always been deemed Italian territories, D'Annunzio liberated Fiume because it was, and is, an Italian city. In Africa, Italians first "conquered" some territories that later, during the Allies' African campaign, they "gave them back" to the Allies... Many Italian commanders, according to the dictates of their conscience, decided to surrender their command and positions to their Allied counterparts according to the then-current laws of war, rather than face the harsh casualties that were to be expected in case of fighting. Certainly the fascist regime didn't agree, but who cares, Italy suffered so many losses that we can be grateful those commanders acted as they did. In this period, there is much discussion about, there is a Memory's day, to remember how many Italians were killed by Yugoslavs after Istria and Dalmatia were given to Yugoslavia. 300,000-400,000 people were killed. It was one of the many tragedies that Italy suffered as a consequence of the amnesty (note: perhaps he meant armistice) Allies granted to "avoid further suffering". We don't yet a precise aestimate of the casualties that were caused by Italy's surrender."
 
True, although the missed gain of Trieste and Istria would still be resented by Italian irredentism almost as sorely as the loss of Aosta.
Well, my point was more that it wouldn't actually be a part of the peace treaty between Italy and the Entente, so, from the perspective of the Entente and, even, Italian diplomats, it wouldn't really play in - Italy, being a losing power, would have a hard time citing a lack of a gain as reason why they shouldn't lose something.
I guess it would stay Austrian by default, while Trento would still go to Italy. Given that both Austria and Italy would be defeated powers, to go for the ethnic-linguistic border would be the natural option for the Entente.
Given an OTLish semi-Wilsonian peace, quite likely. I could see a more purely France-British victory enforcing a peace that leaves it all in Austrian hands (to leave Austria stronger vis-a-vis Italy), but, well, it is probably best to assume the OP wants an answer for a War that is as close as possible to OTL's war, except for the Italian bit.
 
Given an OTLish semi-Wilsonian peace, quite likely. I could see a more purely France-British victory enforcing a peace that leaves it all in Austrian hands (to leave Austria stronger vis-a-vis Italy), but, well, it is probably best to assume the OP wants an answer for a War that is as close as possible to OTL's war, except for the Italian bit.

In such a scenario, I think Italy will still gain Trento once Anschluss comes around, since Germany wants and needs Italy as an ally, and has no need whatsoever for Trento at all.
 
Best-effort translation of mine:

"Even nowadays, South Tyrol folks do not deem themselves Italians. It is rather offensives for those who wish to celebrate 150 years of a united Italy. As it concersn Trieste and Istria, they have always been deemed Italian territories, D'Annunzio liberated Fiume because it was, and is, an Italian city. In Africa, Italians first "conquered" some territories that later, during the Allies' African campaign, they "gave them back" to the Allies... Many Italian commanders, according to the dictates of their conscience, decided to surrender their command and positions to their Allied counterparts according to the then-current laws of war, rather than face the harsh casualties that were to be expected in case of fighting. Certainly the fascist regime didn't agree, but who cares, Italy suffered so many losses that we can be grateful those commanders acted as they did. In this period, there is much discussion about, there is a Memory's day, to remember how many Italians were killed by Yugoslavs after Istria and Dalmatia were given to Yugoslavia. 300,000-400,000 people were killed. It was one of the many tragedies that Italy suffered as a consequence of the amnesty (note: perhaps he meant armistice) Allies granted to "avoid further suffering". We don't yet a precise aestimate of the casualties that were caused by Italy's surrender."

The Armistice signed betwen Allies and Italy is a tipical exemple of a hurried agreement. Many soldiers and peoples in Rsi cant surrenders at the Allies because they have the presence of Germans troopers in the same territory of the Rsi. They can decide to do desert the Rsi for respect the Armistice, usually come killed by german troopers. Shooted in a common pit.
Partigiani are an exemple of luky attempt to desert. Or they have join the revolutionary way before nazi and fascist forces in the Rsi can arrive at eliminate them.
Tito besides respond only at Stalin... but Stalin have to do with Truman.
Truman at the notice of Tito arrive at Trieste have say: "tell at that son of b**** what US have hunt it with the guns".
Tito and jugoslav's troopers can not move again.

Germany be find forced into an ally with Italy, and the same for us.
Uk and France turn back on us, for effect of armistice from the first world war. In another scenario, if France or UK or USA give a hand at Italy, Mussolini is the first to accept this help. In the plans of Mussolini not enter the war befor a one or two decades... for preparate Italy at a conquest war. But in two decades many can happen...
Italian Navy can helped, for exemple, at the defence of UK during the first fases of the North Atlantic war. It is probable what the germany invade Italian territory but, with the help of the Allies, this is a secoundary problem.
Italy is, at the second, a more than near location for lunch an invasion from the germany, with the effect to conquest Berlin more before the arrive of Soviet Red Army.
 

Eurofed

Banned
In such a scenario, I think Italy will still gain Trento once Anschluss comes around, since Germany wants and needs Italy as an ally, and has no need whatsoever for Trento at all.

Yup, ITTL the Anschluss shall surely happen earlier than OTL, since Germany and Italy shall want and need each other as allies, and shall cooperate from the start (in all likelihood supporting each other's covert rearmament programs, probably as an extension of the OTL covert German-Soviet cooperation).

As a rule, TTL *Versailles order as a whole shall probably start to crumble a bit sooner, since the USA are still going to return to isolationism, and Britain and France shall face a tougher job maintaining it, since Italy shall be as revanchist as Germany and the USSR just as hostile.
 

Thande

Donor
The problem is that, as others have mentioned, if both Austria and Italy are CPs this limits the possible territorial transfers. I suppose France could get some territory in Piedmont or have the region demilitarised like the Rhineland but...Sardinia could maybe go to France but again that's just Versaillesque being dickish for the sake of it.
 
The problem is that, as others have mentioned, if both Austria and Italy are CPs this limits the possible territorial transfers. I suppose France could get some territory in Piedmont or have the region demilitarised like the Rhineland but...Sardinia could maybe go to France but again that's just Versaillesque being dickish for the sake of it.

I agree. Anyway, the more France could get is Valle d'Aosta and some minor corrections of the border. Sardinia or Piedmont provinces are ASB.
 
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