Italian territorial losses if it joins the central powers

Say Italy joins in 1914 believing France will soon fall and the central powers still lose

What territory would Italy lose
 
Say Italy joins in 1914 believing France will soon fall and the central powers still lose

What territory would Italy lose
It's colonies are the obvious loss. Otherwise it's hard to say, I think it'd be like Austria-Hungary where it would be decided at the end of the war based on which regional movements decided to prepare to jump off the sinking ship durring the war.
 

raharris1973

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It's colonies are the obvious loss. Otherwise it's hard to say, I think it'd be like Austria-Hungary where it would be decided at the end of the war based on which regional movements decided to prepare to jump off the sinking ship durring the war.

Would there be any such?

In Germany there were some with hardly any genuine support.

Would such groups have more support in certain regions of Italy?

Which ones?

Also, we will need a short sketch of what balances out the advantages of Italy in the CP provides for the CP and allows the Entente to win regardless.
 
Would there be any such?
Depends how badly the war goes, certainly secessionism was a fringe idea in Austria-Hungary prior to and for most of the war.

In Germany there were some with hardly any genuine support.
Italy's linguistic/dialectic diversity is also much greater than that of Germany, not as great as the situtation in A-H, but something roughly between the two.

Would such groups have more support in certain regions of Italy?
I'm not to sure which regions had the most active movements for autonomy or movements to preserve their dialects at the time. But to my limited understanding the south tends to be the usual suspect for this sort of thing.
 

Marc

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Also, we will need a short sketch of what balances out the advantages of Italy in the CP provides for the CP and allows the Entente to win regardless.

Exactly, in fact, a fairly robust model could be constructed that with Italy, the Central Powers are victorious by no later than 1917.
 
Italy coming into the war early on the CP side might be enough to make France think twice about its defensive strategy for Paris. In OTL they nearly fled the city before the First Battle of the Marne, if the Austrians and Italians are approaching or threatening to approach the Rhone simultaneously France might be screwed
 
Also, we will need a short sketch of what balances out the advantages of Italy in the CP provides for the CP and allows the Entente to win regardless.

Exactly, in fact, a fairly robust model could be constructed that with Italy, the Central Powers are victorious by no later than 1917.

Since the thread presupposes an Entente victory, perhaps run with a crushing French victory at the Battle of the Marne- Italy has jumped into the war just in time to see the Kaiser's men encircled and destroyed outside Paris. The Germans have to pull back dramatically before their lines shorten enough to dig in, and TTL's Western Front covers far less of France's territory.

That's probably enough to keep France and Britain in the game long enough for American reinforcements. It might also scare off the Ottomans from joining the CPs, too.
 
All colonies definitely. Perhaps Libya is divided between UK and France. UK might too get Italian Somaliland and Eritrea. Continent Italy hardly lost anything. It might be possible that Italy lost Sardinia to France and Sicily becomes British protectorate but I bit suspect that.

There hardly is enforced balkanisation of Italy when it didn't occur with Germany.
 
Say Italy joins in 1914 believing France will soon fall and the central powers still lose

What territory would Italy lose
Maybe a newly founded Yugoslavia will claim Triest. What really baffles me Idee the question, who will rule the Northern Italia territory still unser Austria control ? Italy would be in the looser side and the Entente wouldn't want them to grant them anything, in the others was they would want to punish Austria, too.
 
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Maybe a newly founded Yugoslavia will claim Triest. What really baffles me Idee the question, who will rule the Northern Italia territory still unser Austria control ? Italy would be in the looser side and the Entente wouldn't want them to grant them anything, in the others was they would want to punish Austria, too.

Trieste and other territory under Austrian control as of 1914 simply don't count here because they are not (yet) Italy's to lose.
 
Did Italy have islands in the Agean at some point? If so these would be taken in the war and not returned.
 
Trieste and other territory under Austrian control as of 1914 simply don't count here because they are not (yet) Italy's to lose.
But the question would be If Italy is or is not allowed to gain this territory, which would be undoubtly a loss in the minds of many Italians.
 
One of the important things is all the British land that isn't given to the Italians. The French were supposed to give them some, but that didn't quite work out. Now, perhaps Cyrenaica goes to Egypt? Then again, Libya wasn't really controlled by Italy outside of a couple of ports. Maybe they set up a native dynasty? I suppose it would depend how much the Senussi help out, and it might just end up like the Hasmeties being shuffled around. Are the Ottomans going to be in this war? They only got in it IOTL because some Young Turks mildly helping out the Germans in a false flag operation, followed by Churchill ordering attacks on the Turks before waiting for anything to be cleared up. Understandable in a war, though he seemed a bit colonialist. If the Turks don't join the war, then they are legally supposed to get Rhodes back, but I imagine the British keep it for themselves, or give it to Greece. Depends on what position they take in the war.

What do you guys think about the Italian Concessions in China? The Austrian-Hungarian one was a bit complicated, but it seems the Entente just went along with the Chinese nullifying the Cncessiin when China entered the war, though the Italians tried getting it for themselves. Seems the Italians were just in Shanghai and Tianjin, so I am guessing they lose their district in Tianjin to the Chinese, and their seats in the committees of Shanghai. Not that they had the most power there anyways. Apparently the Shanghai International Settlement was created with the American and British Concessions (apparently the French dropped out of an attempt to join) and the British ran the show. Makes sense, considering how Americans were told by their own government to head to the British consulates nearest to them if they were in trouble in Asia.

What do you guys think the situation with Ireland will be like? With the Italians and Germans as the enemies to the US, I am wondering how American and Latin American minds will take to having their largest minorities as being from enemy countries. I am guessing a lot of propaganda about systems of governments, and how the ones going to the Americas went to escape regressive monarchies.
 
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Too the POD

While Italy joining the war on the face of it provides the CP with a large advantage there is also the possibility that it keeps the Ottomans Neutral or even on the side of the Entente.

Let me explain my thinking here

Italy saw the Balkans as her sphere of influence and I can see them moving in to ensure that Austria does not gobble up the whole area after ‘defeating Serbia’ and this might lead to them attacking Greece.

This leads to the Ottoman Empire leaning towards the Entente either as pro Entente neutral or a full player I the region

This keeps the straights open for transport to Russia and allows the Entente (Particularly France and the Commonwealth) from getting bogged down in the Middle East

This may result in some very strange bedfellows with the Greeks, Turks and Russians all fighting alongside each other in that region

But then war is a funny old game

EDIT: Perhaps Milne grows a pair and attacks Goeben before the declaration of War (blame on the very confusing signals from Winston) while she is coaling in Messina on the 5th and 6th of Aug sinking/crippling both vessels.

The act angers Italy (perhaps there is colataral damage?) and this puts the 'swingometer' of public and political opinion firmly into the CP camp.
 
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Imo Austria gets to kep all of South Tyrol, including the Italian Trentino, Yugoslavia gets Friul/Trieste/Istria and the rest of the Eastern Adria coast, this ensures potential conflict and diplomatic cold age between the countries there not unlike the German cessions in North Schleswig, Eupen-Malmedy, Danzig and Memel.
 
Imo Austria gets to kep all of South Tyrol, including the Italian Trentino, Yugoslavia gets Friul/Trieste/Istria and the rest of the Eastern Adria coast, this ensures potential conflict and diplomatic cold age between the countries there not unlike the German cessions in North Schleswig, Eupen-Malmedy, Danzig and Memel.
The Serbs didn't want Istria, wishing to pretty much being Greater Serbia. It matches pretty well to their desires at the Breakup of Yugoslavia, with Bosnia, Herzovigina, and chunks of Slavonia going under Belgrade's rule. I expect the King of Montenegro is still screwed over here, with his land swiped. And the Germans weren't too anger about the land lost to Denmark, as it overwhelmingly voted for Denmark, and there had been a referendum promised when the Prussians invaded it begin with. Heck, when Hitler invaded Denmark he didn't reannex it. Though that was partially because he thought Denmark would make a single Gau.
 
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