Italia Eterna

[LordKalvan]

Nice work, Mr. Bluenote!
I like the way your TL is developing, even if it was a pity you have had Balbo going out in a plane crash. With all his characterial defects, Italo balbo must have been a likeable rogue.
I would have expected that the British might have tried to hold longer in India. Still the pressure for indipendence (together with some discreet aid from the Axis and the USA) coupled with the british being overextended in Far East must have been too much for them.
The French apparently are repeating the same mistakes of OTL, trying to hold to all the (remaining) pieces of their oversea empire, and loosing them one after the other. Btw, it must have galled them having to ask the Italians for aid: I can almost hear De Gaulle gnashing his teeth.
Who's developed nuclear capacity at this stage? I would assume the peace treaty with the West has put a crimp on German plans. Stalin has other worries. The French lack the money. I would expect that UK, Italia and (possibly) the USA have developed nuclear capacity, but still far from having got a H bomb.
If Italia has been able to get over the first difficult post-war years, the road should soon become very smooth. The integration of the refugees has given them a lot of potential, and the special economical ties with the USA are providing both the financial strength and the technology back up to make a real break through.
As a matter of fact, all the Axis should be doing well: in OTL, Spain was a kind of pariah, Turkey was always considered more of an advance defense basis than anything else, and Central Europe was under the Soviet thumb. In TTL, all of these countries should be booming, contributing to, and benefiting from, the Ukraine boom. It has always been my idea that a strong and richer Turkey would have greatly beneficial effects on the whole Middle East (beside the fact that in TTL Israel is not a dividing issue).
A completely different world came out of Mussolini having a single moment of lucidity: very amusing.

I'm travelling in Europe these days, so I cannot contribute much. However, I am always looking forward to read your thread.

 

[G.Bone]

good TL Bluenote! keep going!

 

[LordKalvan]

As an additional thought, I am quite strongly convinced that the economic boom of the Axis will result into a democratization of all their regimes. Theprocess may be slower or faster, but you cannot keep the lid on people who become affluent. Poor people are the best prospect for dictatorships

 

[Mr.Bluenote]

Nice work, Mr. Bluenote! (...) I like the way your TL is developing, even if it was a pity you have had Balbo going out in a plane crash. With all his characterial defects, Italo balbo must have been a likeable rogue..

Thanks you once again, Kalvan! It's good of you to comment so extensively on the TL! I appreciate it!
Well, I don't think that the Italians should have it to easy in the IETL, so.... Balbo was no doubt a thug, but he seemed likable in a strange piratical way, yes.

I would have expected that the British might have tried to hold longer in India. Still the pressure for indipendence (together with some discreet aid from the Axis and the USA) coupled with the british being overextended in Far East must have been too much for them..

Exactly! I can't see the British Empire holding on to very much for a very long time after this ATL WW2, even if they would have liked to. I hope the part on Britain gave the empression of an Empire in some sort of decline. Should I elaborate in the next instalment?

The French apparently are repeating the same mistakes of OTL, trying to hold to all the (remaining) pieces of their oversea empire, and loosing them one after the other. Btw, it must have galled them having to ask the Italians for aid: I can almost hear De Gaulle gnashing his teeth..

Well, I hope to give the ATL a little twist by having the Italo-British relationship degenerate into some kind of Cold War and the Franco-Italian one into an uneasy alliance. The Italians will fight to keep first Indochina and Madagascar in French hands because of their bases there, then slowly get involved in Africa etc etc.
Hehe, I personally cant' stand DeGaulle so I had him replaced with LeClerc. I'm currently in favor of letteing French go "Junta" under LeClerk, DeTassigny and Juin... What's your take, guys?

Who's developed nuclear capacity at this stage?

I'm putting that into the 1950's part, where the Italians test their first bomb in Libya. The French will perhaps be cut in on the Italian programme, since they have acces to Uranium, or could that be found somewhere in the Axis?
I suppose the US and perhaps the British have their own programmes, but at a somewhat lower level than OTL. The British and American programmes lack resources and the coorperation between several international scientists of OTL. Or might not the long Asian War actually have accelerated the British programme?
The Germans will probably do their outmost to develop nuclear weapons, but they will be short on resources, but propably more focused since they too need a big stick to keep the bear away!

If Italia has been able to get over the first difficult post-war years, the road should soon become very smooth. (...) As a matter of fact, all the Axis should be doing well: in OTL, Spain was a kind of pariah, Turkey was always considered more of an advance defense basis than anything else, and Central Europe was under the Soviet thumb. (...) It has always been my idea that a strong and richer Turkey would have greatly beneficial effects on the whole Middle East (...).

Rebuilding and fighting the large number of smaller wars will no doubt strain the economy, but I suppose that in the 60's the Axis nations economies will boom. Most of the 50's, however, will be somewhat bleak and poor, I think, since we have a very poor and wartorn Europe and eventhough the US aids the Italians and the Axis quite generously, it's far from the Marshall Plan.
On the issue of Turkey I totally agree. Still, both Turkey and Spain, not the mention the other Axs countries, were rather backwards in regards to industry and infrastructure. It will take time and money (lots of both I fear) to elevate them to a modern standard.

A completely different world came out of Mussolini having a single moment of lucidity: very amusing..

Yes, I hope so. I try to make Italian Eterna a little bit different from other WW2 TL's!

I'm travelling in Europe these days, so I cannot contribute much. However, I am always looking forward to read your thread.

Really? Where in Europe? Oh, and thanks again!

good TL Bluenote! keep going!

Thanks a lot, G! I'm glad you like it! I hope to post the 50's in a few days! The post-war parts are taking a lot of time to write!

As an additional thought, I am quite strongly convinced that the economic boom of the Axis will result into a democratization of all their regimes. Theprocess may be slower or faster, but you cannot keep the lid on people who become affluent. Poor people are the best prospect for dictatorships

Quite right! That's my opinion as well, Kalvan, so look out for a democratization of the Axis around the mid-60's.

Best regards!

- Mr.Bluenote.

 

[G.Bone]

BTW- will a map be coming in sometime in the future? How much of Africa/Greece is part of the "Italian Empire"? How is the US coming along?

 

[Mr.Bluenote]

BTW- will a map be coming in sometime in the future? How much of Africa/Greece is part of the "Italian Empire"? How is the US coming along?

I would like to put up a map, unfortunately my skills in that department are somewhat lacking!

Regarding Greece, it's an independent nation in the Axis/Forum of Nations. Africa consist of the normal Italian colonies plus Djibouti and Tunisia.

The US is rather isolationistic and play little role as such in the world, besides lending money and selling products to the nations around the world. Should I perhaps make some notes on the US in the next post?

Thanks for the comment!

Best reagds!

- Mr.B.

 

[LordKalvan]

Exactly! I can't see the British Empire holding on to very much for a very long time after this ATL WW2, even if they would have liked to. I hope the part on Britain gave the empression of an Empire in some sort of decline. Should I elaborate in the next instalment?

Yes, please. I´d love it.

Well, I hope to give the ATL a little twist by having the Italo-British relationship degenerate into some kind of Cold War and the Franco-Italian one into an uneasy alliance. The Italians will fight to keep first Indochina and Madagascar in French hands because of their bases there, then slowly get involved in Africa etc etc.
Hehe, I personally cant' stand DeGaulle so I had him replaced with LeClerc. I'm currently in favor of letteing French go "Junta" under LeClerk, DeTassigny and Juin... What's your take, guys?

Once again in full agreement. DeGaulle became a monument tohimself well before the 5th Republic! Anyone is better than him.
OTOH, I have some ideas about proxy wars for the Italian Empire (see below)

I'm putting that into the 1950's part, where the Italians test their first bomb in Libya. The French will perhaps be cut in on the Italian programme, since they have acces to Uranium, or could that be found somewhere in the Axis?
I suppose the US and perhaps the British have their own programmes, but at a somewhat lower level than OTL. The British and American programmes lack resources and the coorperation between several international scientists of OTL. Or might not the long Asian War actually have accelerated the British programme?
The Germans will probably do their outmost to develop nuclear weapons, but they will be short on resources, but propably more focused since they too need a big stick to keep the bear away!

There is uranium in Central Africa, very close to Lybia. Then there is Katanga(what happened to Belgian Congo?) And I would bet that in the cold war with UK the Italians would become friendly with South Africa

Rebuilding and fighting the large number of smaller wars will no doubt strain the economy, but I suppose that in the 60's the Axis nations economies will boom. Most of the 50's, however, will be somewhat bleak and poor, I think, since we have a very poor and wartorn Europe and eventhough the US aids the Italians and the Axis quite generously, it's far from the Marshall Plan.
On the issue of Turkey I totally agree. Still, both Turkey and Spain, not the mention the other Axs countries, were rather backwards in regards to industry and infrastructure. It will take time and money (lots of both I fear) to elevate them to a modern standard.

Your points are well taken, but...
- there is a lot of oil revenues in the Axis coffers
- Turks (in particular) and Ukrainiáns are very good troops to fight a low-intensity proxy war. Same thing would be true for Croats and Serbs. If the Italians are smart enough....

Yes, I hope so. I try to make Italian Eterna a little bit different from other WW2 TL's!

You´re really doing that. Keep writing!

Really? Where in Europe? Oh, and thanks again!

Germany, Italy & Switzerland. I´m posting this from Frankfurt Airport, on my way back to Australia

Thanks a lot, G! I'm glad you like it! I hope to post the 50's in a few days! The post-war parts are taking a lot of time to write!


Quite right! That's my opinion as well, Kalvan, so look out for a democratization of the Axis around the mid-60's.

Do that! and do ot overrate the Italo-French Entente!!!

Best regards!