Israel-Palestine conflict:Christians vs. Jews

how would the israel-palestine conflict be different or work out in an alternate timeline with no islam? the main religions of the opposing sides being judaism & christianity.
 
Wouldn’t happen, 1,400 years’ worth of butterflies would see to that.

You might see something remarkably close, though, in the form of a Jewish insurrection against a Christian power owning the province in the modern era. For bonus points, make it a surviving Roman Empire, who’d still call the region Palestine, making it a literal Jewish Israel versus Christian Palestine conflict
 

Brunaburh

Gone Fishin'
how would the israel-palestine conflict be different or work out in an alternate timeline with no islam? the main religions of the opposing sides being judaism & christianity.

Without Islam you would almost certainly have Jewish states in the Arabian Peninsula at various times and places, and in North and East Africa. You will likely see Jewish beliefs spread in Western Central Asia more than OTL, given the Jews were still proselytising at this time. There would be many, many less Jews in Spain, perhaps none by 1000. The Visigoths were trying to wipe them out. If that ideology spreads, Judaism might be in trouble around the Mediterranean.

There would be no "Israel" as we know it, and none of the states of Europe, with the possible exceptions of France and Italy would exist, so obviously, things would be quite different.
 
You understand that there would be gigantic butterflies without Islam? Middle East would be unrecognsible if Islam never would form or not spread outside of Arabia.
 
Without Islam you would almost certainly have Jewish states in the Arabian Peninsula at various times and places, and in North and East Africa. You will likely see Jewish beliefs spread in Western Central Asia more than OTL, given the Jews were still proselytising at this time. There would be many, many less Jews in Spain, perhaps none by 1000. The Visigoths were trying to wipe them out. If that ideology spreads, Judaism might be in trouble around the Mediterranean.

There would be no "Israel" as we know it, and none of the states of Europe, with the possible exceptions of France and Italy would exist, so obviously, things would be quite different.
why did they stop proselytising
 
Yeah because Lebanon is totally having a great relationship with Israel right now.

There are many Christian Palestinians and they by and large oppose Israel, the mayor of Nazareth is Christian.
 

Brunaburh

Gone Fishin'
why did they stop proselytising

They were stopped by law from doing it in Christian territory quite early, there was a big moral panic about Jews owning Christian slaves in case they converted them. When the same thing happened in Muslim territory they were basically very limited where they could proselytise, even though they still converted people on the steppe and probably further north. There were also internal factors, some rabbis seem to have started pushing against conversion as a way to police the border between Jews and Christians very early, and this tendency grew stronger as it became more practical.

Of course, even after the proselytising era, genetics show that a lot of people were adopted into Judaism on the quiet. You wouldn't have to do much more than wander around an Israeli supermarket looking at people to prove that.
 
They were stopped by law from doing it in Christian territory quite early, there was a big moral panic about Jews owning Christian slaves in case they converted them. When the same thing happened in Muslim territory they were basically very limited where they could proselytise, even though they still converted people on the steppe and probably further north. There were also internal factors, some rabbis seem to have started pushing against conversion as a way to police the border between Jews and Christians very early, and this tendency grew stronger as it became more practical.

Of course, even after the proselytising era, genetics show that a lot of people were adopted into Judaism on the quiet. You wouldn't have to do much more than wander around an Israeli supermarket looking at people to prove that.
"genetics show that a lot of people were adopted into Judaism on the quiet. You wouldn't have to do much more than wander around an Israeli supermarket looking at people to prove that." can you expand on this. kinda went over my head
 
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Brunaburh

Gone Fishin'
"genetics show that a lot of people were adopted into Judaism on the quiet. You wouldn't have to do much more than wander around an Israeli supermarket looking at people to prove that." can you expand on this. kinda went over my head

Well, what I mean is that on average the Jewish populations originating in the varying regions look a lot like the gentile populations of those regions, showing that they have mixed with them quite a lot. Genetic evidence also shows that there has been considerable gentile contribution to the Jewish gene pool. There was likely gradual contribution through adoption, intermarriage and integration of slaves or their children into the population, which led to the physical differentiation of the original Mediterranean Jewish people into the very diverse population we see today.

This communal adoption is rather different from the proselytism that occurred in the Hellenistic period and continued much later in some places.
 
Well, what I mean is that on average the Jewish populations originating in the varying regions look a lot like the gentile populations of those regions, showing that they have mixed with them quite a lot. Genetic evidence also shows that there has been considerable gentile contribution to the Jewish gene pool. There was likely gradual contribution through adoption, intermarriage and integration of slaves or their children into the population, which led to the physical differentiation of the original Mediterranean Jewish people into the very diverse population we see today.

This communal adoption is rather different from the proselytism that occurred in the Hellenistic period and continued much later in some places.

Genetic evidence shows consistently that (among Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and Mizrahim) we Jews are more closely related to each other than to the non-Levantine peoples we lived next to for two thousand years. Jewish endogamy was the rule and Jewish proselytism / conversion was fiercely persecuted by Christian and Muslim regimes.

Don't forget that the Levantine phenotype is super broad. Ahed Tamimi and Linda Sarsour both look just like a lot of Ashkie Jews that I know.
 
Yeah because Lebanon is totally having a great relationship with Israel right now.

There are many Christian Palestinians and they by and large oppose Israel, the mayor of Nazareth is Christian.
He didn't say there would be no conflict, he asked what it would look like without Islam.

Learn to read before you comment
 
The fundamental issue with this is it asks so much. I mean France, Germany, and many Slavic nations likely wouldn't exist in the forms we know and love, without Islam, as these were all influence by Charlemagne.
 
Genetic evidence shows consistently that (among Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and Mizrahim) we Jews are more closely related to each other than to the non-Levantine peoples we lived next to for two thousand years. Jewish endogamy was the rule and Jewish proselytism / conversion was fiercely persecuted by Christian and Muslim regimes.

Don't forget that the Levantine phenotype is super broad. Ahed Tamimi and Linda Sarsour both look just like a lot of Ashkie Jews that I know.

I am no expert on the genetics, but if you compare the looks of Ethiopian Jews and Ashkenazi Jews, they look very different. If you see the average Ashkenazi Jew it is quite difficult to tell them apart from the average Northern European. Living far north of course have influenced their appearance just like it has for other people in the north of Europe, but still. With Ethiopian Jews they look even more different from for instance a Palestinian than do an Ashkenazi Jew. From what I understand, genetic studies show that the Y chromosome of Ashkenazi Jew descend from the Middle East, while it is more unclear about the female line. It has been suggested that male Jews have travelled into Europe as tradesmen and married native women.
 

Brunaburh

Gone Fishin'
Genetic evidence shows consistently that (among Ashkenazim, Sephardim, and Mizrahim) we Jews are more closely related to each other than to the non-Levantine peoples we lived next to for two thousand years. Jewish endogamy was the rule and Jewish proselytism / conversion was fiercely persecuted by Christian and Muslim regimes.

Don't forget that the Levantine phenotype is super broad. Ahed Tamimi and Linda Sarsour both look just like a lot of Ashkie Jews that I know.

That is only true in terms of Y-chromosome lineages. While Jewish populations wherever they are show a Levantine component, especially on the male line, they are not more related to each other than local populations. Ashkenazi, for example, seem to be about 20% European on the male line, and about 80% on the female. This is what you might expect in a patriarchal society. The Mizrahis and safardim have been very badly studied and I've seen people say both that they are not at all mixed and that they are significantly mixed. To me they look to be (from the data) less locally influenced. The Ethiopian Jews are similar to the Ashkenazi in profile.
 
I am no expert on the genetics, but if you compare the looks of Ethiopian Jews and Ashkenazi Jews, they look very different. If you see the average Ashkenazi Jew it is quite difficult to tell them apart from the average Northern European. .
I'd say as individual, Ashkenazi Jew could pass as Northern/Central European, but as group, they are quite different (just like Assad or Al Douri could pass as Northern Euros, but large group of Syrians or Iraquis could be told apart easily). During Holocaust, having light hair/eyes was slight advantage for Jews, because such look was far from popular image of Jew, so increased chances to hide (for example Jewish mother of Polish actor Krzysztof Kowalewski survived whole ww2 outside ghetto, never wearing the yellow badge, thanks to her "Aryan" look-she was blonde and blue eyed).
 
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