Israel-led Middle East?

Can Israel, in any way, make the Arab countries (excluding/including Egypt, Iran, and Turkey is up to you) become a collection of its puppet states and economical colonies as far as they willing to sign a mutual defense agreement with Tel Aviv (a kind of new political bloc)
Plausible? ASB?
POD is from Israel's independence.

Thanks in advance!
 

Hkelukka

Banned
Yes but unlikely to.

Firstly, stop seeing the arabs as enemies from the start, dont just go around expelling half a million people because someone somewhere else expelled you. That doesnt work well.

Secondly, stop having wars with your neigbours, that doesnt work.

Thirdly, stop placing indiginous people on your new country into concentration camps and waging low level guerilla war / civil war with them for 50 years.

Now, how to do this depends on how you want it done. Some would recommend closer integration and more cooperation, i would do the following.

1950 or 1960, During some war in the area, Israel occupies Gaza and Westbank, Expels the entire palestinian population DESPITE the huge backlash it causes and then digs in. Despite much crying, no one would care. The palestinians would eventually become the "New Jews" but without the financial resources and the global sympathy and the continual low level war, no one would care.

So, by the 70's and 80's the situation would calm down with the palestinian question no longer a question, ISrael would pay a few token compensations to their families and due to its technical and financial leadership would probably quickly become the become around which all non-fundementalist mid-east countries form. The arab leaders could say "palestine was 40 years ago, the oil crisis is today" and Israel would be sort of the Japan of asia, sure everyone knows that Japan and China arent exactly friends, but China isnt exactly firing Scuds at Tokyo. And These two have a bit of a history as some might know.

Get Israel to use its first major military victory to expel entire palestinian population from their territory disregarding the international backlash, spend 5-15 years as pariahs and then return quickly to normalcy.
 
Perhaps a modest bloc that includes Jordan and Lebanon, but that is all. Perhaps more if Syria or Iraq breaks up over the long decades.

Let's say Britain and France handle the Suez Crisis better. They wait until after the US elections in November and after the USSR crushes Hungary. They use the extra time to better prepare. When Israel seizes the Sinai, Britain and France get the canal and humiliate Nasser, discrediting Arab nationalism, taking control fo the canal, and Israel gaining the Sinai. Egypt is eliminated from exercising any kind of influence east of Suez. Israeli has some powerful patrons, and both Britain and France continue to exercise some role in the Middle East.

Syria threatens both Lebanon and Jordan with its expansionist designs. Over the next 2 decades, Israel is able to secure peace treaties with them and some form of economic and military cooperation to keep out the Syrians.

Without Egypt, Syria and Iraq become the main anti-Israeli countries and receive massive support from the USSR.

At some point, war with Syria happens, and the Israelis crush Syria. Israel annexes the Golan and gains a de facto protectorate over certain parts in Syria. Lebanon identifies itself with a Phoenician, not Arab identity and enters a working relationship with Israel. Jordan only wants peace and is willing to cooperate, seeing Israel as less predatory than its Arab neighbors.

Israel supports anti-Baghdad elements in Iraq in response to continued hostility including helping the Kurds who gain independence at some point, perhaps in an Israeli-Iraq War. Independent Kuridstan (in Iraq) allies with Israel to keep its independence.

The likelihood of all of the above is slim, but the general situation is at least possible. Israel would have peace treaties with multiple countries. Egypt is not a threat, but relations are not friendly. Lebanon is a defacto ally and economic partner. Jordan is officially unfriendly, but conducts all sort of friendly deals behind closed doors. There are friendly elements in what was Syria and Iraq (basically the non-Sunni or non-Arab portions) with some areas having defacto or even dejure independence. The main Sunni Arab areas of those countries are unfriendly, but not able to mount any kind of real resistance.

There would not be any real satellites to control nor economic colonies. Certainly no official organizations, alliances, or blocs. But Israel has multiple peace treaties, an officially normalized relationship with much of the Middle East, and some influence with at least 2 weak neighbors that are friendly.

With the discrediting of Arab nationalism, we may see an earlier revival of political/militant Islam, but it may not become a factor until the 1980s or 1990s.
 

Gwax23

Banned
Yes but unlikely to.

Firstly, stop seeing the arabs as enemies from the start, dont just go around expelling half a million people because someone somewhere else expelled you. That doesnt work well.

Secondly, stop having wars with your neigbours, that doesnt work.

Thirdly, stop placing indiginous people on your new country into concentration camps and waging low level guerilla war / civil war with them for 50 years.

Now, how to do this depends on how you want it done. Some would recommend closer integration and more cooperation, i would do the following.

1950 or 1960, During some war in the area, Israel occupies Gaza and Westbank, Expels the entire palestinian population DESPITE the huge backlash it causes and then digs in. Despite much crying, no one would care. The palestinians would eventually become the "New Jews" but without the financial resources and the global sympathy and the continual low level war, no one would care.

So, by the 70's and 80's the situation would calm down with the palestinian question no longer a question, ISrael would pay a few token compensations to their families and due to its technical and financial leadership would probably quickly become the become around which all non-fundementalist mid-east countries form. The arab leaders could say "palestine was 40 years ago, the oil crisis is today" and Israel would be sort of the Japan of asia, sure everyone knows that Japan and China arent exactly friends, but China isnt exactly firing Scuds at Tokyo. And These two have a bit of a history as some might know.

Get Israel to use its first major military victory to expel entire palestinian population from their territory disregarding the international backlash, spend 5-15 years as pariahs and then return quickly to normalcy.


Right because all those wars since the formation of the State of Israel where because Israel just "hated those darn arabs so much"

Also Israel never expelled anyone most palestinian refugees where the result of the war of Independence in which many fled the conflict area.

On the other hand 1,000,000 jews where actually forcibly removed from theirs homes in Muslim/Arab lands begining post Israeli Independence. Only difference is Israel took in this huge refugee community that spoke a variety of different languages and came from different backgrounds and integrated them into the state while the Arab states couldnt do that with a group of people that spoke the same language and shared the same customs for...close to 70 years? yet no one hears about the Jewish refugees. No Special body at the UN. No Special status given to the children, grand children and even great grand children of the original refugees. Unlike in other cases where the status does not pass down generation to generation. Maybe the arab states could stop abusing them and using them as a political tool against Israel and progress could be made....but then we could put Israel at fault..nvm then.

And yes Concentration camps. I forgot about the 6 odd million palestinians systematically killed at Israeli Concentration camps over the years. Must of missed that.
 

Yonatan

Banned
Well, on its own, it might seem impossible, however the question only asks for Israel to be a regional superpower relative to the arab states.
Instead of massively changing Israeli mentality and events from independence to something unrecognizable, I suggest we go a different route:

The cuban missile crisis goes hot, , leaving the USSR destroyed, the USA in ruins, large swaths of Europe uninhabited, and conviniently leaves Israel untouched as at the time it wasnt targeted by anyone.

Im thinking along the lines of this timeline by Amerigo Vespucci https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=65071

After the war, Israel is left as the single most powerfull state in the middle east, the eastern blog is gone, so arab states dont realy have anyone else to supply them with weapons, and are thus forced to accept Israel's existance.
With Israel calling the shots, we can see Lebanon and Jordan being made into puppets (not officialy, but de facto) with Syria and Egypt loosing terrotory to Israel and being made mostly irrelevent.

In other words, possible, but extremly hard and its not a world any of us wants to see. barring such a doomsday event I cant see arab states willingly allow Israel to dominate them and sign mutual defence pacts with it. its too much of a change to the points of view of both Israelis and arabs.
 

Hkelukka

Banned
Right because all those wars since the formation of the State of Israel where because Israel just "hated those darn arabs so much"

Nothing to do with what I said. The concept of a low level civil war is much more damaging to pursuing peace at a later date than is say, one all out bloody war. Had Israel chosen the more bloody path at any one point when they were both at a state of war with one of their neighbours that is predominantly arabic (all of them) and muslim (all of them) and simply chosen to go US on the palestinian population and do a bit of "trail of tears" on them. It works if you want a Israel lead middle east just as well as it worked for a US lead north america. You dont see many Wappinger tribal indians firing Scuds into manhattan. Thats because there are no more Wappinger tribal indians.

PEace in the middle east is a entirely different order than middle-east lead by Israel. To get that you cant have a palestinian conflict, and you cant have Israel and Palestine in the same land with overlapping desires and not have a conflict. You will absolutely not see a peace for the duration of the Cold war, and once you get 2-3 generations of people hating each other, you dont get peace ever.

I'm not saying its right, or logical, or empathic, or any of the above. But it is how things work. If you want peace you kill those that might breed to try to kill you later. Worked for the Native Americans, would have worked for Israel.

The biggest mistake Israel did was in not drawing clear ethnic borders with the Israelis on one side and the Arabs on another and then dig a giant trench and dig in for 20 years. Then wait for the situation to calm. I think founding israel was a stupid move in the first place BUT now that it is there, world should realize that its a country of 5-6 million people with 200 nuclear weapons surrounded by 1 billion people at a near constant war with itself and its neighbours in one form or another. What ever happens i'm sure the popcorn will be much needed.
 
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