ISOT options

What Would You Do In 1250 BC


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    19
  • Poll closed .
i'm sure that many of you have read stirlings Island in the Sea of Time, ISOT, so if you had the choice what would you have done?
 
What is a Walker ? Even though I have never read the books, the other choices make general sense, but what does this Walker mean ?

Grey Wolf
 
Walker was a crewmember of the Coast Guard Ship Eagle and rebelled and hijacked weapons and a ship, and sailed to Europe. He became the bad guy of the series.
 
Walker's full name was William Walker.. gee, recognize that famous historical name? Stirling should have come up with something different... the minute I read that name, I knew what his role in the series would be. Plus, the character casts aspersions on my home state of MT (he comes from the Bitteroot area, very near where I'm from) :(
You left out one option for this scenario.... become a freelance ranger like Girenas. Wouldn't it be great to go exploring in prehistoric America or S. America? Or go see the moas on New Zealand, or the Bronze Age Serengeti?
 
OK, is there a role for becoming a teacher, establishing a centre of learning etc ? That kind of thing would strike me as rather vital in an ISOT'ed community

Grey Wolf
 
Pull a _very_different_ Walker

Unlike Walker I would take my time, study the cultures of the Old World very carefully, and use my real and quite exstensive knowledge of Celtic and Indo-European studies to really get into the heads of either the Sun People, or, more likely, one of their Continental relatives. I already speak Irish, German, a little Latin, and a fair bit of Gaulish, so the Sun People tongue should have a number of very familiar features, making it possible to pick up relatively quickly. Indeed, the language seems to very closely resemble Old Common Celtic, and I have lots of material on that at home.

So, after picking up the local language, and learning the local power structure, I combine the role of bringer of irresitable techniques of war, with that of religious reformer. In this role, I don't set myself up as prophet, but use a local woman, preferably one with a reputation as a welitaa, or seeress, to express my ideas, and teach me more of the details of the culture. This is based on the role that such women played, even in the more patriarchal variations of the culture. They were regarded as mouthpieces or even incarnations of the Sovereignty Goddess, and so as essential to legitimate rule. The right welitaa could easily make me the power behind a native king, with much more fanatical support than Walker ever enjoyed. The religious reform is not intended to impose my own ideas on the religion, but instead to simplify it, regularize it, and impart memes that make the religion more able to resist Christianization and absorbtion by the Nantucketers. The struggle between Light and Darkness would probably be central to this, as well as a simple, conceptually unified pantheon, and the concept of Dedmaa, or sacred law.

Through the religion, I could introduce other useful technologies, techniques, and memes. The idea of Ulatis, or Sovereignty, as a guarantor of Dedmaa, for example, could be refined into the idea of a potentially universal state. I would also try to introduce an idea of Sun People linguistic nationalism - that all who speak the same tongue, share the same Dedmaa, and worship the same Gods are one Toutaa, that is to say, tribe, who must therefore have one Rix, one King, and one Ulatis, one State. This State would include an Assembly, and even the idea of limits on royal power. The government and ideology would be highly authoritarian, but not totalitarian.

Like Walker, I would need a secret police, but instead of using the, um, talents of a monster like Hong, I would be more likely to use a combination of my own people with the members of the priesthood who had come to share my vision and my reform. They would combine a power-political with an ideological role, and so be a lot closer to the historical NKVD or SS than to Hong's little torture chamber. Indeed, I have little use for torture and would discourage it, though probably not outlaw it inflexibly. Instead, simply "disappearing" people can work as well at quashing dissention, and is rather less brutal. There are some lively ways the notion of "night and fog" could be combined with the probable local folklore to give the secret police a mystique that would create as much awe and respect as fear.

(To be clear, I do not believe in or offer aplogetics for such methods today. But, the Bronze Age is a different time, and the building and modernizing of a nation a quite different task than maintaining a civil and democratic society in a country with long experience in self-government. I am not trying to imitate Hitler here, so much as the early-modern state-builders such as, say, Richeleu, or else modernizers like Ataturk.)

A number of ideas, ranging from the scientific method (sold as a mystical discipline), and modern medicine (ditto), to a modernizing army (sold as a warrior's society and discipline), an education system (sold as an indoctrination tool, probably expressed in local parlance as "glanosagion nertosagionc anatiyaas", or "purification and strengthening of the soul"), writing (sold as sacred runes), and mathematics (a great tool to keep the calendar and astrology in line), would be included in my package.

The best _place_ to do this would not be among the British Sun-People. This is too close to allies of Nantucket, and easily reached by sea. It would be wiser, if possible, to go quite a ways up the Rhine, near enough the modern Alsace and Saarland. This is an area rich in the kinds of resources that make industrial revolutions possible, with good farmland, plenty of space for expansion, and it's pretty hard for Nantucket to get too many boats or troops there. In any case, after a suitable interval, I would do my best to kiss and make up with the Island, so as to avoid attack and get higher tech by trade. This shouldn't be too hard, given that I have stuck around the Island a good bit longer than Walker, and that I threaten none of their vital or sentimental interests. In time, I would likely be viewed as a rather unpleasant ally, or as their version of Col. Kurtz.

Which would be their long-term mistake. The Island novels assume that over the long term the Nantucketers have a lock on modern medicine and methods, as well as control of a nascent world trading network, and a memetic superiority that outclasses any potential opponents. However, this new state will have more than the beginnings of modern medicine, a slowly developing scientific revolution, a Continental trade-network of its own, religious and nationalistic innoculation against assimilation by outside cultures, and, as it expands and absorbs one tribe after another (all poor, lost brothers who must have their national conscousness raised, of course), a superior base population. While the Islanders have a big head start, a unified Western Europe, centuries after my death, of course, would be a juggernaut very hard to beat.

Suddenly the Island will have competition, and the world may get to keep some of its richness and diversity as a result.
 
This is a pretty cool question by the way.

Some of the choices (becoming a marine and dying?) don't really make my heart pump hard.

I like the idea of teaching, but you have to do more than kust have raw information, you need to know how it works. So you can't just take an encylopedia into the outback somewhere.

All in all, I like the idea of being a trader the best. Even in the book the independent traders seemed to be most happy.
 
I think the best way to get around the whole thing of being considered a rebel like walker and his gang is not to take over bloodily, but to take over with out hurting the Nantucketers. By this I mean do what the General and his sister did. marry into the local royalty and then take control that way. I mean there were no real reprucusions when Kathryn married the king of Babylonia. Sure there was talk, but that basically ended when the real war began.

What i'd do is go to a local big chief or what not, ooohhh and awe him with the wealth of trade goods that he could get with an alliance with Nantucket, then woo and buy his eldest daugther from him (gotta have no sons, at least none that will live until the old guy croaks) basically what Walker was going to do with Achea, but this time minus the Nantuketers interfering.

import some skilled workers from Nantuket, then begin building up. It was said that Nantucket wasn't crusading against slavery, they didn't try to force Babylon to give up their slaves, instead they just looked the other way and did what they needed. same will go here, don't make a big deal in getting slaves,a few raids and whatnot against barbarian tribes. ally and get as many other people under your rule, if they don't cooperate claim they're a threat to you and your children and your people (make sure you got children) then invade and take control. barbarian campaigns are a given, nobody's gonna squawk when you crush and enslave them.

Then you'll be set, a mini kingdom of your own. Shape the way you want it to look. Of course you can keep building it up, until the day Nantucket becomes complacent with its Superpower status and then you invade and take over.
 
I always had a soft spot for that black guy with Walker who wanted to set the Africans up as equals to the whites. It was a bit disappointing the way he got sidelined in the plot. Not that I thought he could really succeed, but I think Stirling should have done more with him.

Myself, I think the prospect of power would be irresistible. The question is whether to shoot for an early spot in the Nantucket government or to go native. It would be great if Tartessos could be restrained from doing anything too terribly stupid, maybe liberalized with a new religion. A vague form of Christianity might work, but would likely come to blows too much with the local faith. Buddhism might be better - and amusingly ironic too.
 
Matt> I agree, but I thought he did succeed, in a long term way. In the last book, there was a scene where he privately had contacts with some of the tribes below Egypt (none of which was known to the Pharoah's people). He was giving them the secrets of ironworking and other stuff. While the tribes won't become Iron Age people overnight, they certainly are going to advance a lot faster. Plus, McAndrews wasn't turned over to the Nantucketers, so he's still in Egypt to carry out his scheme....
 
Id most likely end up with Walker. Id probably stay with him for a while to proove my loyalty, and then ask for resources to carve out my own little Empire. I think that when Walker gets to the British Isles Id help him as a leutenant, Id organize my own guards of about 500 men and equip and train them with the best. To these men I would teach them my beliefs and solfy their loyalty. Then I would found a settlement for these men, their families, and slaves.

Another thing. Slavery within my realm would be like the Norse system, It would never transfer to the children of slaves. Slaves would also be the ones who are trained the most and those willing to stay on their on free will would be freed in short order. I would also recruit from the slave populace promising freedom and knowledge that would solify a high role in the New Society I am creating.

As Walker's Empire grows I thibnk he will eventually leave for Greece, the Middle east of someplace to further the distance between him and Nantucket. I would then take control of his holdings in the British Isles and declare myself King Justin I of Brittania, loyal ally of Emperor Walker of Achaea.

In the books I think that it is not likely that the Nantucketers would have won like they did. The Walerites would have held their own and a peace of the status Quo would have been declared.

So (my) Kingdom of Brittania, all of england minus cornwall peninsula and some of the counties bordering Wales. :cool:
 
I chose the "peon" option largely because I am not by nature an ambitious person Most of all, I would want stability and security. I could conceivably see me joining the Marines, especially after the Tartessian attack, but I would not take the lead - and would especially not become involved in anything as radical and dangerous as Walker's attempt to conquer the world.
 
David Howery said:
Matt> I agree, but I thought he did succeed, in a long term way. In the last book, there was a scene where he privately had contacts with some of the tribes below Egypt (none of which was known to the Pharoah's people). He was giving them the secrets of ironworking and other stuff. While the tribes won't become Iron Age people overnight, they certainly are going to advance a lot faster. Plus, McAndrews wasn't turned over to the Nantucketers, so he's still in Egypt to carry out his scheme....

I'm not sure he wasn't turned over - it just wasn't mentioned one way or the other. Stirling used a lot of sterotypical characters to make points about contempory OTL values. My guess McAndrews had served his purpose (debunking afrocentrism) and he was just dropped once Egypt was no longer an issue. Actually, I assumed he was turned over.
 
zoomar said:
I'm not sure he wasn't turned over - it just wasn't mentioned one way or the other. Stirling used a lot of sterotypical characters to make points about contempory OTL values. My guess McAndrews had served his purpose (debunking afrocentrism) and he was just dropped once Egypt was no longer an issue. Actually, I assumed he was turned over.

I don't know, looked to me as if he had a parachute ready to go, having made contact with the black africans, he positioned himself nicely. I thought he'd escape and sit quietly in Africa building the base they needed to come to the table a full partner in the game.
 
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