Islamwanks shouldn't require genies: book reviews.

I foud this review and comparison of three recent books interesting: your mileage may vary.


"Over the last few years, I’ve read three alternate history books about a world in which the Muslim community or an Islamic country is the predominant cultural and political global superpower. Empire of Lies by Raymond Khoury, The Mirage by Matt Ruff, and Through Darkest Europe by Harry Turtledove. The United States has been locked in a perpetual war throughout the Muslim world for most of the last thirty years, and so it is perhaps unsurprising that speculative fiction writers have taken to considering the possibility of the converse; imagining a universe where Islamic countries are the center of finance, culture, military and political power, and the Christian West is a backwater, home to religious extremists and terrorists and not much else. All three of the books are interesting, and take different approaches to exploring the realm of possibility, but it’s ironic that Turtledove, a competent but not particularly innovative author, wrote what may be the most subversive of the books. Though these novels are about other worlds and universes, the assumptions built into the storytelling expose more about the biases and preconceptions, the limits of the author’s imagination, even when they are purposefully constructing an imaginary world. Through Darkest Europe has some serious problems as a book, including a very stupid point of divergence and the absence of an actual plot, but it’s the only one to portray a truly modern Muslim World."
 
oud this review and comparison of three recent books interesting: your mileage may vary.
I thought you write it, but that is the point, if you want to write alternate history, you need a POD and stick with this, even fighting against the own butterfly wind too. but those are narrative, is to entertain us
 

Stretch

Donor
So, TL:DR, Turtledove was the only one of the three not to be Islamophobic/Middle-Eastphobic in how his story was written? That's nice.
 
So, TL:DR, Turtledove was the only one of the three not to be Islamophobic/Middle-Eastphobic in how his story was written? That's nice.
Having read all three books I think it’s a bit more complicated than that. Both the Mirage and Empire of Lies have fantasy elements (jumping between timelines and time travel respectively) Turtledove’s book is pure alternate history set in a world where physics operate the same as IOTL.

I don’t think Islamophobia is to blame or indeed if this is even a large enough sample size to draw any real conclusions from.
 
So, TL:DR, Turtledove was the only one of the three not to be Islamophobic/Middle-Eastphobic in how his story was written? That's nice.
Having read all three books I think it’s a bit more complicated than that. Both the Mirage and Empire of Lies have fantasy elements (jumping between timelines and time travel respectively) Turtledove’s book is pure alternate history set in a world where physics operate the same as IOTL.

I don’t think Islamophobia is to blame or indeed if this is even a large enough sample size to draw any real conclusions from.
I think people forget that for a lot of people AH is still fantasy and for others they just want the all come as the only world they know(ie OTL) too
 
I think people forget that for a lot of people AH is still fantasy and for others they just want the all come as the only world they know(ie OTL) too
That’s a good point. A lot of published AH stories have fantasy backgrounds: the Gate of Time, Guns of the South, and Delenda Est all spring to mind even though none of those stories even mention Islam.
 
That’s a good point. A lot of published AH stories have fantasy backgrounds: the Gate of Time, Guns of the South, and Delenda Est all spring to mind even though none of those stories even mention Islam.
Excatly, people shudder the idea another world is not ours when is a Historical or earth-based setting, that is fantasy want to be otherworldly, a very realistic explanation of a brit and/or usascre would put off a lot of English readers(the same for other language-based AH too). People want what they feel familiar too.
 
Hello! These are really good books. I have heard about them many times. I would also like to find on the website https://freebooksummary.com/category/almost-maine a summary for at least for one of them. There I found the summary for Almost, Maine, and it convinced me to read this story. And your post convinced me to read Empire of Lies.
 
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Having read all three books I think it’s a bit more complicated than that. Both the Mirage and Empire of Lies have fantasy elements (jumping between timelines and time travel respectively) Turtledove’s book is pure alternate history set in a world where physics operates the same as IOTL.

I don’t think Islamophobia is to blame or indeed if this is even a large enough sample size to draw any real conclusions from.

I'll agree with this sentiment. It is definitively more nuanced than just "Islam wanks shouldn't require genies"... as noted Turtledove's book has a weird POD, which not only rellies on Great Man Theory (i.e. the opinions of Thomas Aquinas and Al-Ghazali thoroughly and singularly shaped Christianity and Islam respectively) but when taken literally suggests that OTL's Islam is entirely incompatible with reason, which is just as racists - or even more so - than using a genie's handwavium on the POD to create a more fleshed-out world.
I haven't read Empire of Lies, but I would argue that the world presented on the Mirage offers a well-meaning version of an Islamwank, especially on how such a superpower would work in the absence of western neoliberalism.
 
Hello! These are really good books. I have heard about them many times.
they aren't.

I'll agree with this sentiment. It is definitively more nuanced than just "Islam wanks shouldn't require genies"... as noted Turtledove's book has a weird POD, which not only rellies on Great Man Theory (i.e. the opinions of Thomas Aquinas and Al-Ghazali thoroughly and singularly shaped Christianity and Islam respectively) but when taken literally suggests that OTL's Islam is entirely incompatible with reason, which is just as racists - or even more so - than using a genie's handwavium on the POD to create a more fleshed-out world.
I haven't read Empire of Lies, but I would argue that the world presented on the Mirage offers a well-meaning version of an Islamwank, especially on how such a superpower would work in the absence of western neoliberalism.
Surprised to see this thread again...as said before people are lazy, even turtledove might not be unbiased at all either too but you might need to research a lot of stuff in ancient arab to get an idea and people just use a quick book search and call the day
 
Did this trope make a comeback? There was no shortage of doomsday "Muslims run amuck" racist technothrillers during the War on Terror days:



Those were two major ones I can remember from that era but I'm sure there were at least a couple more.
 
i.e. the opinions of Thomas Aquinas and Al-Ghazali thoroughly and singularly shaped Christianity and Islam respectively
A better way of putting it is that the debate of "Can you get closer to God by understanding the material world?" raged in both the Christian and Muslim worlds from roughly 1000 to 1400. In Christendom, Aquinas' "Yes" faction won the debate, and in the Islamic world, the "No" faction won out instead - and then the Mongols sacked Bagdad, which made if difficult to undo the debate. (Note that all of the states under the Mongol yoke took a hard conservative turn after they shook off the yoke)
 
they aren't.


Surprised to see this thread again...as said before people are lazy, even turtledove might not be unbiased at all either too but you might need to research a lot of stuff in ancient arab to get an idea and people just use a quick book search and call the day
The Mirage is the only one I've read and I liked it
 
and Mirage did live up the name, feels so artificial, so mirage playing the parallel, at least turtledove tried
The whole point was that it was artificial though 🤔 it was never meant to hang together as a "living" setting independent of the story it was telling as a deliberate plot point.
 
The whole point was that it was artificial though 🤔 it was never meant to hang together as a "living" setting independent of the story it was telling as a deliberate plot point.
And that was the whole point bmunro was explaining to us, all was artificial and he feel was a massive copout
 
Wasn't the real life Middle Ages pretty much an Islamwank? The only POD that would be necessary is to prolong the Muslim Golden Age by stopping the Mongol Empire and the Black Death. Of course Europe will still eventually grow strong (assuming its independent) because of New World riches but making a stronger Middle East isn't difficult; it was an important region even before oil was found there. An advanced Middle Eastern country that controlled most of the petroleum there could easily become a superpower contender.

Now for a real challenge, try coming up with an Aboriginal Australian superpower. That one might arguably require some magic, or at least a series of huge PODs.
 
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