Islam defeated by the Sassanids and Romans. What do people come to think of Arabs?

Do they regard them as just some desert Barbarians, little different than their Germanic counteraparts? Or as something different?
 
Probably they're not known at all by the general public, or at least no better known than any of the other Arab groups of the region like the Lakhmids or Ghassanids.
 
Probably they're not known at all by the general public, or at least no better known than any of the other Arab groups of the region like the Lakhmids or Ghassanids.
Really? You think that?
I thought they would be about as known as the Goths or the Franks, and most people heard of those.
However, exactly what people think of them is another matter.
 
I would bet they'd probably fall into the same general category as Zoroastrianism and Catharism.

Heh, AH fascinations... "What would have happened if the Islamic Arabs hadn't been defeated?" That sort of thing.
 
That depends on how they are defeated. If they are defeated after some decades, and in the meantime established themselves on Roman soil, they'd be remembered just as Vandals or Goths. If they are defeated in early attacks and vanish in obscurity without ever conquering parts of Rome or the Sassanid Empire, they'd be remembered as much as the Gepids or the Petchenegs. A small faction in a certain period of the Roman Empire (which maybe exists up to today with Egypt and the Levant still in Byzantine hands) most people never heard of.
 
I suppose the OP want the Arabs to be defeated at their first invasions, then the POD would be Maurice didn't get overthrowned by Phocas, I guess...?
Well, if that was the case, I see two posibilities:
-the Arabs established their own kingdom at Arabia proper, but they keep raiding both Mesopotamia and Syria, while Islam itself spreading through traders and missionaries. This way, the Arabs will be remembered as a mighty people who established a mighty kingdom...
-after successfully repelling Arab invasions, Byzantines under Maurice's successor (Tiberius III? Theodosius III?) and Sassanids under Khosrau II's successor (Kavadh II? Ardashir III?) launched a joint invasion to Arabia, besieging and destroying Mecca, Medina, and other Arab cities, killing and enslaving many Arabs, Islam ceased to be major religion. In this scenario, the Arabs will be remembered just as a mighty tribes...
 

Valdemar II

Banned
If you think of the Arabs as in the ethnic group, I guess people will see them the same way as today see Azeries, Pashtuns or Turkmen just another ethnic group at the end of the known world.
 
Really? You think that?
I thought they would be about as known as the Goths or the Franks, and most people heard of those.
However, exactly what people think of them is another matter.

Why would they be? The Goths and Franks established succesful kingdoms on the territories of the Roman West that endured for centuries. The Arabs, in this scenario, would be raiders who were defeated by the Empire, and banished back into their desert home. Best case scenario for the Arabs is that they are remembered about as much as, say, the Pechenegs are now.
 

Thande

Donor
Actually I could see the Arabs being similar to how the Tibetans are viewed in today's West - Islam's desert mysticism might make it appealingly new-age to liberals fed up with the established Byzantine or Roman churches, and as with Western romanticism of the Orient it would be easy to brush over the failed jihad in the distant past.
 
Thande, that's assuming Islam survives the defeat. After the Prophet Mohammed died, a lot of Muslim converts either went back to their traditional religions, or followed leaders who declared themselves to be the next prophets. These Muslim apostates were defeated in the Ridda wars right before the great Islamic invasions.

Since the invasions are defeated ITL, it is possible that the Caliphs are discredited, and that some Arab tribes revolt once again. Without the ability to reward followers in battle, Islam loses a lot of its appeal in this critical time in the religion's history. Some tribes could go back to their traditional religions, and new "prophets" establish themselves. Islam, if it survives, might be a small monotheistic sect, or a variety of similar sects. Such groups could retain their independence, or some might be eventually subsumed into Christianity and their beliefs seen as some strange heresy.

In any case, "Islam" ITL is likely to be very different than how it actually developed. It is not greatly exposed to Greek philosophy, lacks rich patrons, and might remain an oral tradition. If multiple sects exist, if the Quran is written down, there may be multiple versions based on the needs of its various prophets.
 
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