Isabella and Edward??

Joan and the future civil war

hmmmm well the pope annulled Joan's marriage to her uncle the king of protugal. Joan also had the taint of illigetimecy surrounding her, and her mothers antics dont help her claim. So the civil war will be interesting depending alot upon who Aragon is willing to support
 
hmmmm well the pope annulled Joan's marriage to her uncle the king of protugal. Joan also had the taint of illigetimecy surrounding her, and her mothers antics dont help her claim. So the civil war will be interesting depending alot upon who Aragon is willing to support

Sure, but they only married because Juana needed support from Portugal in her war against Isabella. If Isabella isn't in Castille then she wouldn't be a threat. The nobles would probably think that better is to live under the reign of a "suspected bastard" than to be ruled from England. So, Juana doesn't need to marry Afonso of Portugal. Actually, someone who could be interested about marry her would be Ferdinand of Aragon, in order to have access of Castillian wealth and manpower.

Also, even if Juana still marries Afonso, their marriage was only annulled three years later, when the supporters of Juana were already defeated. If she had won probably the Pope wouldn't have declared it.
 
True but depending on how early isabella get's pregnant with Edward's child will become a major factor because Joan never had a child and a child would stengthan Isabella's claim

She probably never had a child because she never had the time necessary. Juana married her uncle when she was 13, and her marriage was annulled whe she was around 16. After that she entered a monastery. If she had remained married for more time she probably could have a child, who for the only fact of being born in Castille would have more support than an English prince. See how Charles V suffered opposition later due to the fact he was a foreigner. The same would probably happen in this case.

If you want to have an union between Castille and England you need to get rid of Juana. Then Isabella would be the only heir of the throne. After her, the next heir would be Ferdinand of Aragon, grandgrandson of John I of Castille.
 
suggestion on the Castile English union

how would you suggest that Isabella win the civil war without Joan dying.. also how would i make a English Castile union work... would a second son of Edward and Isabella rule it or their first son unite the kingdoms under his rule?
 
In reference to Juana la Beltraneja the things could be a bit complicated, although the compromise with Alfonso V king of Portugal is the most known, it was not the only, apart of the compromise with Charles, duke of Guyena, made after negotiations with Louis XI of France, a compromise that was not consumated simplily because Charles died in 1472, Enrique IV also made negotiations after this death to marry Juana with Enrique of Aragon, nephew of Juan II of Aragon.

Finally little before of the death of Enrique IV of Castille in 1474, the marquis of Villena, a partidary of Juana but also a man with the aim of being an important factor in the political life of Castilla arranged definitively the marriage with Alfonso V (before the compromise with Charles of Guyena there were also initial negotiations for marry Juana with Alfonso but the prospects of an alliance with France seemed more important than an alliance with Portugal).

But putting the POD with Isabel refusing the possible compromise with Fernando of Aragon made butterflies flying, so in this case not necessarily Juana could find his destiny in a compromise with Alfonso V, it is probable that Charles of Guyena could die like in OTL (it seems that suffers syphylis and this make more dangerous the tuberculosis that caused his death), even if this is the case Juana could finally married with some aragonese prince (could be even Fernando?) not necessarily with Alfonso V of Portugal.

Enrique IV seems that more than opposed to a possible marriage of Isabella with Fernando was opposed to the way that Isabel choose in OTL to made this, without consulting to him and in secrecy which was contrary to the Pact of the Toros of Guisando in which Enrique IV recognizes in 1468 Isabel as his heiress but with the condition that the marriage of Isabel would have to have the acceptation of Enrique IV.
 
hmmm so who could i possible marry to Joan.... Ferdinand of Aragon.. Alfonso V of Portugal or Galeazzo Maria Sforza

If i pick either Ferdinand or Alfonso, Joan will bring Castile as her dowry... and if i pick Galeazzo Sforza it will make my plans for that family and Italy much more interesting.... which person should i pick???
 
hmmm so who could i possible marry to Joan.... Ferdinand of Aragon.. Alfonso V of Portugal or Galeazzo Maria Sforza

If i pick either Ferdinand or Alfonso, Joan will bring Castile as her dowry... and if i pick Galeazzo Sforza it will make my plans for that family and Italy much more interesting.... which person should i pick???

But Galeazzo was already married to Bona of Savoy. They married in 1468, and she died only in 1503.

There is no prince of Navarre available for her? It would be interesting, since such marriage would have the opposition of Aragon.
 
But Galeazzo was already married to Bona of Savoy. They married in 1468, and she died only in 1503.

There is no prince of Navarre available for her? It would be interesting, since such marriage would have the opposition of Aragon.

King Francis I Phoebus of Navarre was considered to marry Joan in OTL, after she had already lost the CCW and was to be imprisoned in a Portuguese monastery. He was poisoned when he was a teenager, acording to some on one of the Catholic Monarchs' orders.
 
Reading Micronet Encyclopedia edition 2008 (a spanish electronic Encyclopedia with a lot of biographies and a tool that permits to know who was living at a determinate date of history, this with the Encarta 2001 Edition that was the last Encarta that also had a tool that permitted to know who was living at a determinated date are surely two great tools for Alternate History) about Juana la Beltraneja and Isabel one could clearly realise that it seems that from the point of view of Castilla interests only France, Aragon and Portugal could be considered as possible countries where found candidates to marry Isabel or Juana, because in TTL Isabel refused to marry Fernando and remains stubbornly against any possible marriage during some years after the POD surely this will alienate some of the possible allies that she had in Castilla (like the archbishop Carrillo), this clearly mades of Juana the probable heiress of Enrique IV, because the needs of Castilla and in the case of Juana the interests of the castillian nobles that supported her, principally the marquis of Villena, remains in increase the power of Castille with a marriage with a neighbour that could give Castille military help and prestige I think that possibily Aragon would be the chosen, Naples or other italian pretender (like the mentioned Sforza, although this yet was married) would be considered territories too far and little in power compared with Aragon, Portugal and France, also a marriage with italian pretenders could mean a war against some other major power (Aragon or France).

The plaussible option so would be a marriage with some powerful neighbour, personally I would chose Fernando of Aragon.

This naturally seems that the history could repeat with Juana instead of Isabel, but Juana I think did not have the will of Isabel, surely she would be more influenciable by castillian nobles like the marquis of Villena and her new husband Fernando of Aragon.

Also if Juana and Fernando had a son that at the difference of prince Juan, the son of Isabel and Fernando that died in 1497, could survive this probably could reinforce the feeling of peninsular unity (ever naturally respecting the different laws that in the Aragon crown for example was contemplated in Valencia, Cataluña and Aragon and the prerrogatives of the castillian nobles) without the shock in the future of having a heir in the person of Charles I that provoked the rebellion of the Comuneros in Castilla against the intromision of a foreigner king (Charles I)that no doubted in favoured the flemish nobles in the government of Castilla, also the very bad economic situation of Valencia combined with the presence of a focus of black death in the region plus the fact that Charles I decided to not convoke inmediately Cortes in Valencia because was more interested in assured his imperial election that in trying to solve the problems of the kingdom of Valencia caused the rebellion of the Germanias.

All this could be avoided with Juana and Fernando married and with a surviving son, also another effect of not made Isabel queen of Castilla could be the fact that in TTL Cristobal Colon not have the so very good reception thanks in part to Isabel had his project of navigating in direction to the west to found a new route to the Indias, the will of Isabel was marked of combine the need of searching new lands in the Indias for the castillian expansion combined with bring the doctrine of Christ, with Juana and Fernando probably there would not so enthusiasm like in OTL and more pragmacy in reference to financing a project refused by other european monarchs.

Also without a Castillian civil war between Juana and Isabel, the civilian confrontation between the Zegries and the Banu Sarrach (or Abencerrajes) probably could be avoided initially: the unstable situation of Castilla in OTL made possible a fight for the power in Granada between the partidaries of continuing with the actual situation of relations with Castilla -the Banu Sarrach- and the factions that supported the brother of the king of Granada in conquering the power, also a Castilla without a civil war ( the last battle was fighted in La Albuera in february 1479) means that the granadians could think twice before making the movement of taking Zahara in 1481 that was the casus belli that the monarchs of Castilla and Aragon of OTL used to begin the hostilities against the kingdom of Granada.

In consecuence this probably could delay the Granada War a lot, Juana and Fernando could decide to intervene in a possible future civil confrontation in Granada in favour of one of the sides eventually transforming Granada in a vassal kingdom and with the payment of some important frontier populations (principally Ronda and Loja) but in TTL Granada kingdom could survive at least formally independent a lot more than in OTL.
 
King Francis I Phoebus of Navarre was considered to marry Joan in OTL, after she had already lost the CCW and was to be imprisoned in a Portuguese monastery. He was poisoned when he was a teenager, acording to some on one of the Catholic Monarchs' orders.

Hmmmm im leaning toward the match with Navarre just because this would anger Portugal and Aragon, which could lead to Castile and Leon being split in thirds between Aragon, Portugal and Navarre, or allow the English and Castilian nobles to seize the throne....either way this civil war should be interesting to write :D
 
Hmmmm im leaning toward the match with Navarre just because this would anger Portugal and Aragon, which could lead to Castile and Leon being split in thirds between Aragon, Portugal and Navarre, or allow the English and Castilian nobles to seize the throne....either way this civil war should be interesting to write :D

Sure, but he was only 05 years old in 1474, when king Henry dies. He would want to marry Juana to someone who could defend her.

If you want to create instability, what about this: Juana is married to her uncle, Afonso V of Portugal. As a relative, he would defend her rights against the nobles who believe she is a bastard. But because they are uncle and niece their possible children are born with health problems, and die young. Also, they might have some wrong policies, are defeated in some battle against Aragon or Granada, or try to take a city in Morocco and are defeated, something like that.

As ITTL Afonso is never defeated in the Castillian Civil War he doesn't become depressive, don't go to a monastery, and live two years more, dieing in 1483. Again she needs support. Ferdinand of Aragon would be already married to other woman by now, and so she decides to ask the hand of the young Francis of Navarre. His mother, Magdalena of Valois, is an aunt of the French king, Charles VIII, and this connection could give Juana some French help. However, Ferdinand doesn't like it, and orders the assassination of Francis, who dies childless as IOTL.

Desperated, Juana makes a very stupid movement, and decides to ask the hand of the most powerful monarch available: Charles VIII of France. But this brings the opposition of everybody: the Castillians nobles, Aragon and England. And so some messages are sent to Isabella, who would by now have some children, asking her to take her "rightfull throne" back and nominate one of her children as the future king.
 
you could say that... lol remember we still havent had the Edward VS. Edward battle yet :D and what is better way then to end the 1470's than a massive battle in Spain and the end of the War of the Rose's in England..... Also who would be a useful/ good wife for Ferdinand... watch out North Africa
Any Suggestions??? lol sorry about asking for suggestions so much... but after Joan i can not think of any women to marry Ferdinand too
 
Edward Returning to Wales

What noble in Castile would be similar to Warwick the Kingmaker ??

A holdover to the marriage of Edward and Isabella enjoy

Caernarvon Castle
Prince Edward approaches shouted the sentry, which was relayed to Earl Henry and Earl Jasper his uncle. Edward had put them in charge of this castle with orders to train Welshmen for the Lancaster cause. Jasper was worried about his 16-year-old nephew, who clearly was excited and wished to talk with Edward. They had meet a year ago and quickly became friends, after all they both had rough childhoods. Danm that Yorkist Pretender. Prince Edward stormed into the main hall loud as ever. He shouted for Henry to come, and Henry was soon sitting next to his liege and friend. Henry you should have been there, Edward said, I rallied the men and we were able to push those Danm Scots back to where they belong, Scotland, what a hellhole. Henry was in awe of Edward and soon was hero-worshipping him for the rest of the night. Jasper was happy that they were friends and was sure that Henry would be an able to use his considerable intelligence and become a great advisor to Edward. The boys talked late into the night about the battle and the young Isabella, who was such a mystery to the boys. Jasper soon excused himself from the hall to read the letters Edward brought back from Warwick. The first letter was about a potential marriage of young Henry to Anne Neville, Jasper decided he would talk to Henry’s mother about this one, because nobody wanted to deal with an angry Margaret Beaufort. The second letter was Warwick warning Jasper about the eminent arrival of Edward from Burgundy, and Warwick’s order to hole up in the castle and await his arrival. The Third letter was about King Henry VI death and the need to strengthen security around Edward. Jasper decided he would write Queen Margaret and ask for her to retire to Caernarvon Castle with young Isabella. That way he could protect the whole Royal family at the same time.
 
Castilian Kingmaker?

would Gonzalo Fernández de Córdoba be the important noble who decides who rules Castile or would he be to young but he is an important noble and a future titan of the battle field... would be interesting if he remained Isabella's vassal because he would revolutionize both Castile and England's armies


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzalo...e_C%C3%B3rdoba
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