Isaac's Empire

Oh, and I love this timeline, but you got one detail off.

Gunpowder was invented in the 800s CE in China, not in 1161.
 
Oh, and I love this timeline, but you got one detail off.

Gunpowder was invented in the 800s CE in China, not in 1161.

Thanks!
I know next to nothing about Medieval history east of Persia... blame the Dorling Kindersley Timelines of World History lol :D
 
Oddly enough, I know very little about Medieval history WEST of Persia

If you're wondering, I'm Chinese.
 
Genghis Khan was succeeded by his third, and favourite, son Ögedei Khan in 1229. Ögedei realized that to maintain control over his father’s huge empire, further conquests were needed. For a while, he considered attack Baghdad, but then had a better idea. Baghdad might be large and rich, but there was another city, even further west, that was still larger and richer: Constantinople.


Soon after his accession, therefore, Ögedei sent an army west. There can be little doubt that this army was vast in size, numbering perhaps as many as 200,000 soldiers. Frantic embassies from Emperor George I were dismissed, the Khan would not be dissuaded. In the spring of 1230, the great expedition set out.


There was originally some debate amongst the Mongols as to which route to take, but it the end Ögedei, a manknown for his ability to sway doubters in any debate in which he was involved, persuaded his generals and advisers to march south, through the Caucasus. The Mongol horsemen thundered west. By now seriously alarmed, back in Constantinople, George sent word to the King of Georgia, under King George IV. The Emperor’s namesake and close friend immediately prepared for war. A significant Georgian force set out to meet the Mongols, at the soon to be infamous battlefield of Gandza.


There, on September 14th, the Georgian army was annihilated. Their troops, largely heavy infantry, had drawn up on a plain on what had begun as a warm morning. By midday however, with heat searing down on their thick armour, the Georgians began to wilt. The Mongols begin the assault. Led by Ögedei’s talented young nephew Batu Khan, the disciplined and terrifying Mongol horse archers began to loose volley after volley of death at the Georgians. An attempt by the Georgian’s own horse archers to drive their enemies off ended in disaster; the Mongols were true steppe warriors, not a motley group of mercenaries. Growing desperate now, George IV himself led his crack heavy cavalry at a charge straight into the Mongolian lines. Despite inflicting some casualties, the King was captured by the hardened Mongol troops. Only then did the Mongols close for the kill. More and more arrows hummed into the Georgian ranks. Soldiers began to break and run, only to be ridden down and butchered by the terrifying eastern warriors. By evening, the defeat was complete. The entire military might of the Kingdom of Georgia had been wiped out in the space of a few hours.


The King was brought before the Khan on hands and knees. Ögedei commented that the Georgian ruler had fought well and nobly on the battlefield, and it would be a terrible shame for such a brave warrior to be ransomed home like a coward. With these words, the last King of Georgia was executed.


News of the defeat carried fast to Tbilisi, the capital. Soon, the Mongolians were at the gates. Ögedei offered the inhabitants a simple choice, abandon their city, or lose their lives. The terrified, demoralised citizens chose the latter option, and the Mongols rode in. Within a few days, Tbilisi had been demolished, its gold and jewels looted, its houses burned.


The capital of Georgia was indeed a rich prize, but for the ever hungry Ögedei, it was but a mere appetizer compared to his ultimate title, the capital of the Roman Empire. Ignoring the freezing conditions of winter in the Caucasus, the Mongolians swept westward. Trebizond and Sinop both cowered before the oncoming storm, but were ignored. There could be no more distractions now, Constantinople must fall.


By December, Ögedei had arrived at the Hellespont. He urgently needed to cross the narrow stretch of water, and so descended on the cities of the area, Pergamum, Smyrna, and Nicaea, demanding ship builders. All winter, the coasts of Anatolia rang to the sound of the Great Khan’s engineers, building a vast fleet of ships to transport thousands upon thousands of horsemen across the Hellespont.


In Constantinople, George I had received the news of the Mongol advance with horror. But where other emperors might have panicked, the Italian stood firm. The great land walls of the capital were restored, and legions were recalled from across the Balkans to defend the Queen of Cities. But it was in the Golden Horn that the Emperor made his most important preparations. If the Great Khan wanted a war by sea, then the Emperor of the Romans would deliver him one.


Back at Abydos, Ögedei’s base on the Hellespont, preparations were nearly complete. In an astonishingly short space of time, a vast armada of boats had been raised. Ögedei decided to make an impression on the watching Romans. The boats were to be lashed together to make a bridge, which the Mongol horsemen would walk over. The Khan had already heard tales of Xerxes doing this nearly two millennia before, a great king from the east descending on the Greeks. Perhaps he did not bother to hear what happened to the Persian in the end. Either way, by Easter, his bridge was complete. A magnificent bridge of boats, strapped together, spanned the mile across the Hellespont. The Great Khan was the first to cross, urinating on the far side, the first Mongol to enter Europe. Then he returned. The crossing would be made the next morning.


He did not notice the small ship that desperately fled north up the Marmara to Constantinople. Exactly how the message was re-laid in time is unknown. But that evening, on the 16th April 1231, the trap was ready.

The next morning, the great Mongolian army began to cross. The horses were nervous at the rather unsteady bridge, so progress was slow, as their riders comforted and encouraged their steeds. Suddenly, ships began to appear on either side of the bridge. The Khan, expecting this, ordered warships to engage the Romans, which they did. The unfortunate sailors, drafted from as far away as China, could have had little idea what would happen next.


From a Roman warship, a dazzling orange flame began to appear. A viscous, boiling hot liquid was pumped out of nozzles at the front of the warships, engulfing the terrified Mongols. Many threw themselves into the sea, only to be boiled alive by the flames, which burned even on the surface of the water. In a short time, the Mongol defenders had been overcome. The Romans closed on the bridge.


Terror began to break out as the first blasts of Greek fire impacted upon the soldiers crossing. The horses, desperate to escape this horrific death, began to stampede. Coupled with the burning boats, the bridge began to break up. More and more Mongols and their horses leapt into the sea, trying to swim to safety, but the Romans were relentless. More and more Greek fire was pumped out, annihilating the survivors. Missiles flew, sinking the warriors, while small boats of locals scurried around the great galleys, impaling Mongol survivors. The defeat of the Great Khan was total and humiliating.


Ögedei had remained on the far shore, watching all this. As soon as the bridge had begun to collapse, he had ordered all men to retreat. Desperately, the Khan fled across Anatolia, but as his horsemen entered a ravine in the Taurus, they were finally cornered. Trapped and exhausted in enemy territory, the Mongols were massacred to a man. Once again the Roman Empire had emerged triumphant against the odds.


Yet the Mongol menace was far from over. The Battle of Abydos might well have been a disaster for the steppe warriors, but their greatest general, Ögedei’s nephew Batu Khan, had survived. He, and around two thousand others, had already successfully crossed the Hellespont when the Romans attacked. Desperately, the Mongolian fled north, defeating a small Roman force that had been sent to intercept him. Legend has it he and his warriors personally swam across the Danube, either way, by the end of 1231, Batu and the “two thousand” had arrived back at the Mongol capital, Karakorum.

Batu immediately asserted his authority. Yes, there had been a defeat in the west, but it was on Asia that the stability of the young empire depended. Accordingly, Batu made no further moves on the Romans, diverting his forces to completing the conquest of China.

Meanwhile, in Constantinople, the populace was stunned. Never before had such a great force invaded, caused such panic, and then retreated again so suddenly. Some ascribed it to the Virgin Mary, but for the more practical minded it was clear that there was only one true saviour, the Emperor George.


Seldom before had a Roman Emperor experienced such unbridled love from his subjects, but in truth, by the end of 1232, George was fading fast. To this day, the disease that afflicted him is unknown, but it is presumed to have been cancer. More worryingly for the empire, he had no son to succeed him, only a daughter, Theodora. Young Theodora had inherited all of her grandmother Irene’s dominating personality in full, and her father realised the danger of allowing her too much political power in the state. Therefore, he betrothed her to one Isaac Bringas, the grandson of George’s by now long dead ally David Bringas, and a talented young general. This done, the Emperor formally retired from the throne, crowning Isaac Bringas Emperor of the Romans. He died around the age of fifty in 1234 back home in Genoa, with his beloved wife Zoe Komnena at his side. Fortunately for the Romans, their saviour from the West had left the Empire in capable hands. For the first time since Justinian and Theodora, an Emperor and Empress would share equal power over the Empire; and the results would be no less spectacular.








Please would someone be able to do a map of the world at the accession of Emperor Isaac II in this TL for me? It would be greatly appreciated!
 
Wow - that was impressive, im presuming George would get some sort of honourific (spelling :confused:) title as well.

This should of made the Western Nations sit up and take notice:D

Can't wait to see the next Emperor :D
 
Dagnabit man...the morsel was just WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too short...I demand more!

Thanks for the great time line.
 
Excellent update, but a couple of notes. First, the Mongols' foremost general was not Batu Khan, but Subotai. Batu was chosen to command the expeditions due to him being of Chingizid stock (although that was highly debated - more on that point later), and was smart enough to realize Subotai's superior military talent, therefore allowing his general to command troops as he saw fit. Batu, however, claimed credit for most victories.

Second, there is an issue of Batu's succession. There were serious doubts as to his legitimacy, as apparently his grandmother was raped prior to being brough to Ghenghiz Khan, and therefore there were doubts that her son, Batu's father, was actually Ghenghiz Khan's son. This was the reason he could not become Great Khan in OTL, despite his numerous conquests. ITTL, with Batu being defeated, he does not even have the political baggage of his conquests, and therefore is almost certainly not going to be the Great Khan.

Third, and most interesting, is a question of Russia. This invasion is a few years before OTL's invasion of Russia, and before the Battle of Kalka (1237). I presume that since Batu was the leader of invasion of Russia, that is butterflied away by the Mongol defeat in Anatolia. This creates some very interesting possibilities as to what will happen in and around Kiev, perhaps with Moscow's rise to prominence halted early with no destruction of Kiev (1241 in OTL). That in itself is a TL worth pursuing.

Great work either way - I am eagerly looking for updates!
 

Sargon

Donor
Monthly Donor
I too am enjoying this latest update. Although it would have been nice to have some more details about the Byzantine Army meeting the Mongols on land and a thorough description of the fight and the tactics being used there. The disaster befalling the Mongols in the Bosphorus was most interesting though.

Midgard makes some excellent points as always. This has significant effects on Russia too.


Sargon
 
BG

Very interesting chapter. Not at all what I was expecting. Not sure how likely something like that is. Was expecting a bitter war of siege and conflict in the mountains of eastern Anatolia.

Rather doubt that the Mongols would advance that far without establishing controlling forces in the various cities, rather than throwing everything into the crossing. Also would expect that at least one or two centres would be destroyed as examples because someone would attempt to resist. Also that they would conquer nearer areas 1stm, such as Baghdad for its wealth and to expand their power and influence, as well as to seek to terrify their next opponents.

You mention the Georgian king as the last king of Georgia. Do I detect a new province of the empire? Given how many, often brutal, attacks the Georgians faced from Tamerlane in OTL I suspect that some rump state would pull through but probably significantly reduced. They might also be bitter towards the empire that, given the warning of an attack coming they didn't receive any support, since it sounds like the two were on good terms.

Steve
 
Khalka was in 1223. Very possible the Mongols could have trashed Kiev before turning south towards Constantinople.

However (now that I think about it), I find the Mongols ITTL to be a bit unrealistic. They wouldn't leave their rear unsecured like that, so they would take their sweet time devastating Anatolia. The Empire wouldn't recover easily from the devastation wreaked upon them, and it's very possible that the Arabs, who haven't really been touched, would have try to retake Syria and more of Anatolia, especially since the Byzantines would have taken heavy casualties trying to stop the Mongols. Also where is Subutei? Dead? The victory just seemed to easy for the Byzantines, especially against a force as competent as the Mongols. I mean, sure, this is alternate history, and you could have less competent Mongols, but I actually thought the fight would have been an epic showdown, versus a simple massacre.

Oh well, my previous comments still stand. Carry on.
 
Khalka was in 1223. Very possible the Mongols could have trashed Kiev before turning south towards Constantinople.

However (now that I think about it), I find the Mongols ITTL to be a bit unrealistic. They wouldn't leave their rear unsecured like that, so they would take their sweet time devastating Anatolia. The Empire wouldn't recover easily from the devastation wreaked upon them, and it's very possible that the Arabs, who haven't really been touched, would have try to retake Syria and more of Anatolia, especially since the Byzantines would have taken heavy casualties trying to stop the Mongols. Also where is Subutei? Dead? The victory just seemed to easy for the Byzantines, especially against a force as competent as the Mongols. I mean, sure, this is alternate history, and you could have less competent Mongols, but I actually thought the fight would have been an epic showdown, versus a simple massacre.

Oh well, my previous comments still stand. Carry on.


My mistake on Kalka. Still, providing they attacked as in OTL, Kiev still stands (it stood until 1241)... and since the actual force that attacked Russia OTL was sent against Constantinople and thoroughly destroyed, does it mean a different Mongol force is redirected against Russia, or is Russia left alone?

YLi's comments on the Mongol competence (or lack thereof) also need to be addressed. Granted, Ogadai was an alcoholic OTL, but a reasonably capable leader when the situation called for it. It would take a spectacular lack of judgement on his part to do what he did, but it is far from impossible, especially if he tried to do "shock and awe". Perhaps Subotai is butterflied away somehow, thus resulting in less competent Mongol conquest force, led by reasonably competent, but rather unimaginative Batu and similarly mediocre Ogadai?
 
Thanks for all your comments. I'm assuming here that the Mongols were attempting to use "blitzkrieg" techniques against the Romans, by capturing Constantinople quickly before the Empire can call to fellow Uniate Christian states in Iberia and Russia for aid. As this technique has clearly ended in failure, the next Mongol attack will be more like the ones you have suggested here. Thanks again!
 
Thanks for all your comments. I'm assuming here that the Mongols were attempting to use "blitzkrieg" techniques against the Romans, by capturing Constantinople quickly before the Empire can call to fellow Uniate Christian states in Iberia and Russia for aid. As this technique has clearly ended in failure, the next Mongol attack will be more like the ones you have suggested here. Thanks again!

Now, historically when the Mongols were utterly defeated, they usually did not come back for a long time, if at all. Here, it is likely they might simply consider Roman Empire to be too hard to crack, and focus their efforts elsewhere.

Another factor, the Mongols never had very large armies, at least not where it counted (the Mongol horse archer warriors), achieving their results via superior tactics, logistics, and maneuverability as opposed to having a lot of armies to draw on. Even if they have Chinese manpower to draw on, still, those armies are unlikely to be as much of a threat as an army primarily composed of the Mongol warriors. Therefore, a defeat where 200,000 or so Mongols were killed or captured would likely be a VERY serious blow to any ideas of further conquest.
 
Second, there is an issue of Batu's succession. There were serious doubts as to his legitimacy, as apparently his grandmother was raped prior to being brough to Ghenghiz Khan

Hey, There is no doubt as to wether borte was raped. The Mekrit tribe stole her from Temujins camp not before she was brought to him. Temujin was injured in the process. She was missing for some months ... As a result, jochi, was never absolutley certain and temujin never fully accepted him. Because his second son Chagatai refused to accept Jochi as their fathers successor this later lead to ghengis naming his third son ogedai as his successor.

Loved the battle basil, no way would byzantine armoured columns been able to match the speed of mongolian horse archers... although i would like to have seen some drawn out battles between the two forces. Perhaps with the mongolian horse archers winning over time due to their ability to live off mixture of blood and mare's milk - eliminating need of supply lines that byzantines would have needed.

overall great... cant wait for more ^_^
 
The only way the eastern roman empire can win is to fight a defensive fight against the mongols.

Yes, we all love to see the legions go head on with the mongols, but the legions will be slaughtered.


What the romans should do is to fight a prolonged defensive war, where the advantage of the mongol cavalry will have a lesser effect in a seige battle.

Then the romans could allow conduct a gurellia warfare against the mongol's supply line.


Unless the romans have a better cavalry than the mongols, a straight fight is going to be bad for the romans.


Also, do remember than the mongols themselves don't make the inital push, they use foot soldiers from captured terrorities, arab, chinese and even european soldiers to conduct the first phrase of the battle, only when the infrantry battle is lost, then the mongols will attack.



Also, if you want to highlight how did the romans defeat the mongols, you could say it is due to the romans have a united front.

When the romans attack china, china is split into a civil war, and a very weak government.


Also, the mongol invasion of europe being so successful is due to them being able to play on the difference of the various fuedal era kingdoms, making it hard for eastern europe, china and other place to be able to defend themselves.


Personally, I would suggest that you can rewrite the inital mongol attack.
 
The only way the eastern roman empire can win is to fight a defensive fight against the mongols.

Yes, we all love to see the legions go head on with the mongols, but the legions will be slaughtered.


What the romans should do is to fight a prolonged defensive war, where the advantage of the mongol cavalry will have a lesser effect in a seige battle.

Then the romans could allow conduct a gurellia warfare against the mongol's supply line.


Unless the romans have a better cavalry than the mongols, a straight fight is going to be bad for the romans.


Also, do remember than the mongols themselves don't make the inital push, they use foot soldiers from captured terrorities, arab, chinese and even european soldiers to conduct the first phrase of the battle, only when the infrantry battle is lost, then the mongols will attack.



Also, if you want to highlight how did the romans defeat the mongols, you could say it is due to the romans have a united front.

When the romans attack china, china is split into a civil war, and a very weak government.


Also, the mongol invasion of europe being so successful is due to them being able to play on the difference of the various fuedal era kingdoms, making it hard for eastern europe, china and other place to be able to defend themselves.


Personally, I would suggest that you can rewrite the inital mongol attack.

Look I don't mean to be rude, but have you even read the section on the Mongol invasion? I am perfectly aware that the Mongols cannot be defeated in a land battlem which is why I had them defeated AT SEA, where the Romans have the advantage. Secondly, you talk about a "Mongol invasion of Europe" which has not taken place, the only Mongols in Europe so far have been the desperate survivors of the Battle of Abydos fleeing north through the Balkans. Thirdly, there is no way in hell I am letting the Romans get to China, I may be fairly new to the forum, but I do believe that is a rather large "wank".
Nevertheless, the Mongols are not finished with the Empire yet, and your detailed comments have been useful for me to help write the next section. So thank you for your views.
 
Then the romans could allow conduct a gurellia warfare against the mongol's supply line.

Mmm yes can see that being of much use, not. Each warrior carried two bows, thiry six arrows in two quivers. a sword if they had one, a hatchet and an iron file for sharpening arrowheads. as well as these weapons they carried horsehair lasso, a rope, an awl, needle and thread, a cooking pot, two leather bottles for water, ten pounds of hard milk curd, to eat half a pound a day. each ten-man unit had a ger on a remount. So they were completely self sufficient. hence no need for supply lines.
 
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