Is the Philippines destined to be screwed in every history?

I've been reading a lot of timelines in this forum even before I joined. One of the most common trends I saw in them is that the Philippines is always being passed on from one colonial power to another (with a lot of people being slaughtered in the process). There are other scenarios where the Philippines gets nuked for being an American puppet/ally, or being balkanized, among other bad things.

With this in mind, I thought. Is the Philippines really destined to be screwed in almost every alternate timelines, at least theoretically?
 

TFSmith121

Banned
No. Depends on what sort of end state one is considering

I've been reading a lot of timelines in this forum even before I joined. One of the most common trends I saw in them is that the Philippines is always being passed on from one colonial power to another (with a lot of people being slaughtered in the process). There are other scenarios where the Philippines gets nuked for being an American puppet/ally, or being balkanized, among other bad things. With this in mind, I thought. Is the Philippines really destined to be screwed in almost every alternate timelines, at least theoretically?

No. Depends on what sort of end state one is considering as "unscrewed" but even given Philippine history as it was through the Eighteenth Century, independence in the Ninteenth Century (early, in line with the independence movements in Spanish America, or late, with a sucessful Filipine Revolution against that Spanish in parallel with the S-A War) are both possibilities.

A "Dominion" type autonomous status within a Spanish Empire-turned-Commonwealth analogue is also possible, although more challenging for obvious reasons.

A US Commonwealth without the P-A war is also a possibility, but challenging.

It's possible things get worse, of course; a prolonged occupation/exploitation by Imperial Japan beginning in the Nineteenth Century is certainly possible; the Western Pacific is a challenging arena, throughout the modern era, and, presumably, long before then.

The great powers - Asian and otherwise - are always going to be eyeing the archipelago for its strategic location and resources.

Best,
 
I've been reading a lot of timelines in this forum even before I joined. One of the most common trends I saw in them is that the Philippines is always being passed on from one colonial power to another (with a lot of people being slaughtered in the process). There are other scenarios where the Philippines gets nuked for being an American puppet/ally, or being balkanized, among other bad things.

With this in mind, I thought. Is the Philippines really destined to be screwed in almost every alternate timelines, at least theoretically?

Or being Sinicized, I think the best case scenario for the Philippines is that the revolt of Maniago and Malong being remembered as the one that opened their minds and Filipinos stop being complacent and complying with the Spanish which has obvious consequences that are still obvious in the present.

Like in my thread.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=377950
 
Basically yes. the Phillipines comes right after Mexico in that department.

Mexico's problem is historically the United States. In ATL's, Mexico is very screwed.

The Phillipines has the bad luck to be on the periphery of just about every Empire - Spanish, Chinese, American, Japanese, German, British, Dutch, Portugese, you name it. It's just.... in the way.
 
Basically yes. the Phillipines comes right after Mexico in that department.

Mexico's problem is historically the United States. In ATL's, Mexico is very screwed.

The Phillipines has the bad luck to be on the periphery of just about every Empire - Spanish, Chinese, American, Japanese, German, British, Dutch, Portugese, you name it. It's just.... in the way.

Luzon and Sulu were not periphery for the Majapahit, they were important..
 
I've been reading a lot of timelines in this forum even before I joined. One of the most common trends I saw in them is that the Philippines is always being passed on from one colonial power to another (with a lot of people being slaughtered in the process). There are other scenarios where the Philippines gets nuked for being an American puppet/ally, or being balkanized, among other bad things.

With this in mind, I thought. Is the Philippines really destined to be screwed in almost every alternate timelines, at least theoretically?
well if it means anything, my intention for the Philippines in my ASB ATL is that they become fully part of the United States (as three states--Luzon, Visayas, and Mindanao from north to south) and are actually pretty important on the national scale because their high population gives them alot of electoral votes, but admittedly are also the site of a Second American Civil War (TTL's Marcos causes it, basically)
The Phillipines has the bad luck to be on the periphery of just about every Empire - Spanish, Chinese, American, Japanese, German, British, Dutch, Portugese, you name it. It's just.... in the way.
hmm...that would actually make for an interesting (possibly post-apocalyptic) setting: all the peripheral "backwater" countries get out of armageddon virtually unscathed and become the premier world powers while OTL's superpowers suffer drastically
 
I'm working on a TL in which the !Filipines dominate the Pacific.

But then, the main POD is 1800 years ago so calling them the "Filipines" doesn't really work, so until I find a suitable !Filipino language with all traces of spanish ripped out, they're refered to in setting as "Thousand Islanders" or "Sea People"
 
Which just puts them in the cross hairs.

Or to paraphrase Ash from Army of Darkness: "Important... unimportant... they're the one in front of the gun."


One of the Emperors of Majapahit had a filipina wife...we could have had the Majapahit survive in Luzon not in Java.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Bayang Magiliw? Lupang Hinirang?

I'm working on a TL in which the !Filipines dominate the Pacific.

But then, the main POD is 1800 years ago so calling them the "Filipines" doesn't really work, so until I find a suitable !Filipino language with all traces of spanish ripped out, they're refered to in setting as "Thousand Islanders" or "Sea People"

Bayang Magiliw? Lupang Hinirang?

Best,
 
Bayang Magiliw? Lupang Hinirang?

Best,

I could work with either of those. What language?

NVM, Tagalog, duh.

I'm also planning on having them be greatly influenced my Chinese culture, and Buddhism (Christianity and Islam never get large enough to reach them in a substantial way), ala Japan, to the point of adapting a version of the Chinese character set and combining it with the Baybayin syllabary.
 
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Basically yes. the Phillipines comes right after Mexico in that department.

Mexico's problem is historically the United States. In ATL's, Mexico is very screwed.

The Phillipines has the bad luck to be on the periphery of just about every Empire - Spanish, Chinese, American, Japanese, German, British, Dutch, Portugese, you name it. It's just.... in the way.

To be fair, Mexico-wanks are also prevalent in this forum. But when it comes to scenarios regrading the Philippines, a lot of people quickly shoot it down as borderline ASB.
 
No, in fact in OTL the Philippines post independence had a whole lot of potential to be great...

And then marco's happened....

Even now the Philippines have every thing they need to be a industrialized economic giant, they have the people, they have a good location, they have reasources and they have the education.

Fix the polatics and you have another asian tiger.
 
No, in fact in OTL the Philippines post independence had a whole lot of potential to be great...

And then marco's happened....

Even now the Philippines have every thing they need to be a industrialized economic giant, they have the people, they have a good location, they have reasources and they have the education.

Fix the polatics and you have another asian tiger.

I agree. I like EcoBoom's timeline on this, by the way.

As for my timeline, I don't even know what I'm going to do with the Philippines. I don't know much about their government at this time, but there isn't any European colonization.
 
I've been reading a lot of timelines in this forum even before I joined. One of the most common trends I saw in them is that the Philippines is always being passed on from one colonial power to another (with a lot of people being slaughtered in the process). There are other scenarios where the Philippines gets nuked for being an American puppet/ally, or being balkanized, among other bad things.

With this in mind, I thought. Is the Philippines really destined to be screwed in almost every alternate timelines, at least theoretically?

as people would say here, one nation's wank is another nations screw.

Philippines wank would require that Philippines actually exist in thought, meaning 1800 A.D.+. That would also require you to screw several nations in the process. Winning a revolt vs Spain requires a Spanish screw. If you want to continuously expand, all other powers within that area 1800+ A.D.

The other part is ease of research, ease of writing of story since most likely people know more about Spanish history, Japanese history.

Besides, Balkanization in the Philippines, I dont think would be a screw. Separating Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao would be a lifesaver for Luzon. No one would be relying on Luzon and would put less pressure on them financially and be more manageable. While Visayas and Mindanao would have to learn how to manage themselves without the manpower and finances from Luzon like any other independent nation.
 
Tagalog. Variations on Tierras Adoradas.

Best,

as people would say here, one nation's wank is another nations screw.

Philippines wank would require that Philippines actually exist in thought, meaning 1800 A.D.+. That would also require you to screw several nations in the process. Winning a revolt vs Spain requires a Spanish screw. If you want to continuously expand, all other powers within that area 1800+ A.D.

The other part is ease of research, ease of writing of story since most likely people know more about Spanish history, Japanese history.

Besides, Balkanization in the Philippines, I dont think would be a screw. Separating Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao would be a lifesaver for Luzon. No one would be relying on Luzon and would put less pressure on them financially and be more manageable. While Visayas and Mindanao would have to learn how to manage themselves without the manpower and finances from Luzon like any other independent nation.

Exactly, that what I am trying to say.
 
Philippines has a great potential. An independent 1st Republic within the US sphere of influence that does not screw up, or a post 1945 with Magsaysay surviving, EcoBoom TL is a good TL that works off that. 1823 is a great potential for the Philippines to become a major regional power in Southeast and East Asia. Novales Revolt is going to be included in a TL I am working on.

By the way, do any of you have the numbers of the of naval ships Spain had for the Spanish East Indies? It will really help on my TL.
 
DValdron's right. We're pretty much in the way.

Though most ATLs give the Philippines little thought in general. The result of most people here being Americans who mostly only know the Philippines as a colony if they know it at all, or non-Spanish Europeans who know even less.

And there is potential for both the Philippines and Mexico. If you can make the Latin American independence wars a bit more coordinated, a bit more well-led, you may have a Mexico that can stand up to American territorial aggression, and a Philippines that expands south to the Malay archipelago. You can have a Philippines which plays the colonial powers to its advantage, one that perhaps rises as a rival to Japan (though this requires the Philippines to develop more than IOTL).
 
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