Is steampunk truly possible

The question I ask here is within historical context is the idea of a steampunk society even remotely possible in anyway
I know about the difference engine and other things but I'm not truly sure
 

Saphroneth

Banned
It depends what you define as "steampunk". The term runs the gamut from things which actually existed (like le grand hotel) to things which are obviously impossible.


French_battleship_Hoche,_Mitchell_painting.jpg

French BB Hoche, "le grand hotel"
 
Full steampunk, wherein steam power is the apex of human engineering for a long time, is as stated above completely different from having an age of steam while electricity and internal combustion are in their infancy. It would need the invention of basic steam power in an environment where much of the basis for electricity and internal combustion are unknown, an environment where the concept of scientists pushing the boundaries of human knowledge is significantly less prevalent than in post-renaissance Europe.

I've actually pondered on a situation wherein Syracuse defeats Rome sufficiently to bring about a ceasefire due to Archimedes' inventions and possibly some outside help from, for example, Carthage. The Greeks' ally sees the usefulness of some of Archimedes creations better than many of his fellow 'true philosophy should not be sullied by material testing' Greeks and copies some of them. After Archimedes dies, there's sufficient brilliant people around to iterate and improve on his creations, but insufficient driving need not scientific curiosity to invent more efficient pieces of equipment than sets of mirrors and crude steam engines. 200 years after Archimedes dies, the Mediterranean is ruled by wooden paddlewheel-propelled boats that look a lot like triremes, but four or five centuries later the boats are still wooden-hulled if somewhat more hydrodynamic and possibly screw-driven, bronze cannons are seen as the most deadly weapons known to man and there's the general consensus that western society would collapse if the semaphores stopped working.
 
With the exception of steam-powered airships and other complete nonsense that often appears, yes steampunk could have been possible.

Briefly.

Eventually the world's coal supply would be depleted, then its oil supply not long after. Not to mention how much coal smoke would be polluting the air.

I say this because trains can offer much more to the 1880s onward than they did, especially if we avoid the invention of the car for a while. For instance, a train engine can haul far more than an automobile engine, because the tracks etc cause less energy wastage than a car or truck. If someone had the idea to build train tracks every kilometre or so through a big city, and somehow this system was organised, trains could have taken over many of the roles that trucks and cars did in real life. A steam tank is pretty much just a train with a massive gun.

- BNC
 
"If someone had the idea to build train tracks every kilometre or so through a big city..."

AKA Trams, no ??
 
"If someone had the idea to build train tracks every kilometre or so through a big city..."

AKA Trams, no ??

Sort of, but trams don't fit quite as well in the idea of steampunk. What they do is demonstrate that it was possible to go that bit further and put trains there instead.

- BNC
 
Full steampunk, wherein steam power is the apex of human engineering for a long time, is as stated above completely different from having an age of steam while electricity and internal combustion are in their infancy. It would need the invention of basic steam power in an environment where much of the basis for electricity and internal combustion are unknown, an environment where the concept of scientists pushing the boundaries of human knowledge is significantly less prevalent than in post-renaissance Europe.

I've actually pondered on a situation wherein Syracuse defeats Rome sufficiently to bring about a ceasefire due to Archimedes' inventions and possibly some outside help from, for example, Carthage. The Greeks' ally sees the usefulness of some of Archimedes creations better than many of his fellow 'true philosophy should not be sullied by material testing' Greeks and copies some of them. After Archimedes dies, there's sufficient brilliant people around to iterate and improve on his creations, but insufficient driving need not scientific curiosity to invent more efficient pieces of equipment than sets of mirrors and crude steam engines. 200 years after Archimedes dies, the Mediterranean is ruled by wooden paddlewheel-propelled boats that look a lot like triremes, but four or five centuries later the boats are still wooden-hulled if somewhat more hydrodynamic and possibly screw-driven, bronze cannons are seen as the most deadly weapons known to man and there's the general consensus that western society would collapse if the semaphores stopped working.

It would be very fascinating to imagine a quasi-industrial steam-powered ancient civilization like that...which is also totally unaware of the effects of global warming.

Very fascinating indeed.
 
Eventually the world's coal supply would be depleted, then its oil supply not long after.

Earth is lousy with coal. There's enough coal to last humanity hundreds of years... and that's just the stuff we know about, nobody hardly even looks for it anymore. The pollution would be a worse issue, but if as far as you get is the steam age it might take them a while to realize it.
 
Earth is lousy with coal. There's enough coal to last humanity hundreds of years... and that's just the stuff we know about, nobody hardly even looks for it anymore. The pollution would be a worse issue, but if as far as you get is the steam age it might take them a while to realize it.
There's about 1 or 2 centuries' worth at current rate, and that is with oil and gas and stuff being used as well. If every major appliance was powered by coal, I don't think it would be possible to consider coal still being around by 2100.

- BNC
 

Delta Force

Banned
It depends what you mean by steampunk. All nuclear reactors in operation today use water for at least secondary cooling (some use carbon dioxide or sodium for primary reactor cooling). Geothermal power plants use steam turbines as well, and the most advanced intermediate/baseload natural gas fired power stations use a combined cycle system in which the exhaust from a gas turbine is used by a steam turbine to produce additional power.
 

Deleted member 97083

It depends what you mean by steampunk. All nuclear reactors in operation today use water for at least secondary cooling (some use carbon dioxide or sodium for primary reactor cooling). Geothermal power plants use steam turbines as well, and the most advanced intermediate/baseload natural gas fired power stations use a combined cycle system in which the exhaust from a gas turbine is used by a steam turbine to produce additional power.
Not to mention many coal power plants use steam turbines, and coal is still the leading fuel for electricity generation in the US and China, only declining in usage in the US since 2007.
 

Delta Force

Banned
Not to mention many coal power plants use steam turbines, and coal is still the leading fuel for electricity generation in the US and China, only declining in usage in the US since 2007.

Almost all thermal power stations built prior to the 1970s use steam turbines as well (with the notable exception of diesel plants), including petroleum and natural gas plants, which started using gas turbines in the 1970s and 1980s (combined cycle becoming more common in the 1990s).
 
There's about 1 or 2 centuries' worth at current rate, and that is with oil and gas and stuff being used as well. If every major appliance was powered by coal, I don't think it would be possible to consider coal still being around by 2100.
That rather depends on the world population, and more specifically the world population using steampunk. In a less-populated world, such as the antiquity steampunk suggested, there would be far fewer people sharing in the benefits of steam technology. Especially if only a portion of the world keeps the technology for themselves and exploits the rest of the world for coal, imperial-style.
 
It would be very fascinating to imagine a quasi-industrial steam-powered ancient civilization like that...which is also totally unaware of the effects of global warming.

Very fascinating indeed.
It could also be horrifying. Industrial live stock production techniques were a major influence in both early and later concentration camps. In such a TL, I could easily imagine genocide being just a normal thing done by such a civilisation.
 
This movie sums it up pretty good, a world where steampower never run out and modern electricity is not invented coal gets more and more valuable but runs out, so to fire their modern empries, the European Nations (mostly France, but also Britain, German and so on) go to war with America to conquer the great forests in North America (maybe the rain forest of Brazil next - but the thinks happening in the mvie take another road after the war in Europe/America) to secure their industrial survival!

APRIL-AND-THE-EXTRAORDINARY-WORLD.png
 
Last edited:
The problem with steampunk was that you needed differential pressure cylinders for it to be really effective, otherwise most of the energy simply went to compressing the previously heated air of the last combustion cycle and the metallurgical technology needed was considerably more than basic wrought iron. You needed steel or at least iron with controlled carbon content to withstand the stress of a differential pressure engine, this didn't come about until the 18-19th century. Sure you can get steel in ancient times, with each blade taking months of blacksmith time, a small mountain of charcoal, and at a price so dear that they becomes family heirlooms.

Jump forward to the time when it does become possible and you'd find that petro is alot easier to invent and use due to the lower difficulties of a combustion engine vs a combustion>steam>turbine engine. Its possible but not the best choice so expect people to choose the cheaper choice least petro disappears.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Slightly after the invention of the train. I would say 1840 or so.

- BNC
Well, remember that the Ancients had rail-based methods to pull galleys across the isthmus of Corinth in Greece. So I think it's possible that you could have something along those lines taking place.

That there wasn't a steam revolution in the Roman world doesn't make it impossible, it merely makes it hard.

As for steel in ancient times - the lorica segmenta included deliberate steel hardening on the front of the plates, making it essentially face-hardened armour (composite).
So I think it's quite doable with a bit more development.
 
Last edited:
Top