Antonius may be on to something here...Antonius became worried he had made a mistake he would come to regret.
Antonius may be on to something here...Antonius became worried he had made a mistake he would come to regret.
Antonius may be on to something here...
If his suspicions are correct, I'm not too fussed. I was always more of a Pompeius (Sextus or Magnus) fan.Indeed he may.
Below is the only thing that seems like a mistake, as far as I can discern.Also, if you guys notice anything wrong with the accuracy of this, please don't hesitate to point it out.
On Pompeius’s urging, he converged on Alexandria from the west, while Pompeius did so from the west.
...Cleopatra attempted one last ditch effort at reaching out to Pompeius, and offered to willfully accept surrender and imprisonment, in exchange for Caesarion being spared execution...Cleopatra surrendered herself to Pompeius, who characteristically stood by his word, and not a hand was layed on young Caesarion. [/FONT]
Nothing seems to stop the Pirate king now! Although...... I fear his leniency towards Cleopatra may prove to be a huge mistakes, as its likely that she wont stop her scheming.....and i fear her vengeance will be against Sextus.
Great TL so far, keep it up!
I must cordially disagree. Her eldest son is being held hostage in Rome. She will not risk his life.
Hero of Canton
For now, anyway. Still, i think Cleopatra is too good a character to be put on the sidelines in this TL.
Below is the only thing that seems like a mistake, as far as I can discern.
I don't know enough to talk about probability or realism, but I am enjoying the read!![]()
A welcome change from the bloody-mined and perfideous Octavian in OTL!
Well done sir! The Pirate Emperor seems off to a good start!
Hero of Canton
Nothing seems to stop the Pirate king now! Although...... I fear his leniency towards Cleopatra may prove to be a huge mistakes, as its likely that she wont stop her scheming.....and i fear her vengeance will be against Sextus.
Great TL so far, keep it up!
I must cordially disagree. Her eldest son is being held hostage in Rome. She will not risk his life.
Hero of Canton
For now, anyway. Still, i think Cleopatra is too good a character to be put on the sidelines in this TL.
She'll scheme and plot and plan but it sounds like her fangs have been pulled...I am not even sure she is remaining in power even as a figurehead.
Hero of Canton
Originally posted by slydessertfox
Okay, so I can use a little feedback here. I don't want to make Pompey's settlements a carbon copy of Octavian's, yet I don't want it to drift too far from Octavian's either. If you guys have any ideas, PM me. I'll probably think up of something soon anyway, but I feel it would be a good idea to get some ideas from you guys as well.
Good updates
What is the fate of Cleopatra?
Like Zenobia of Palmira of OTL she is exiled in a roman villa?
Thinking I had the idea (an idea that rounded my head some time ago about a possible Pompeius Magnus total victory in Dyrrachium against Caesar) that a title with all a series of legal normatives to stipulate in that consist it that the Pompeius Family and the successors of Pompeius Family in being the power behind the Republic would be of "Protectors of the Republic" in latin "Susceptor reipublicae" or simplily the protectors "Susceptor".
This figure would be like a dictator but with less powers and with a not limited duration although the Senate could abolish this title to the person that exercises it with a qualified majority in a serie of stipulated cases (corruption, bad use of the power against Senate,etc)
I think so the title "Susceptor" would be an interesting new legal figure for this new republic.
Apart of this there were several Gaul rebellions around 30BC in TTL this happens more or less the same?
I know the donations of alexandria are blown out of proportions as far as their initial effect goes. I admit, I had taken a few liberties with Rome's reaction, but I still tried to make sure that it wasn't enough to cause immediate war, and held it off for another year.Just caught up, great stuff, some feedback:
- The Donations of Alexandria didn't shock anyone at the time. It was Octavian and his propaganda which in time made it seem as if Antonius had 'gone native' and been torn away by the whore queen of Egypt. Bearing in mind of course all we have is the victor's version of events. While Antonius did expand Cleopatra's territory OTL, he gave her only so much as was useful for him, having no problem holding off when he had other plans (ie, her demands he give her Judaea, in order to create a solid Ptolemaic realm from Egypt to Syria). Antonius' gifts restored Egypt in wealth and magnificence but not as a military power, and did not disrupt his client kings in Galatia, Cappadocia, Pontus and Judaea. It would make no sense for him to set these talented men up as his agents in those countries and then demote/replace them with his newborn bastards a few years later (as was implied here). Cleopatra was set up as an imperial rival to the Parthian King of Kings but as liege-lady only of her own sons (and the King of Nabataea iirc, not sure).
From what I read, at least up until his deal with Antony and Octavian, Sextus Pompey was immensely popular with the people, where as Octavian's popularity was plumetting due to the blockade. He was also the last refuge for republicans in exile who were on the proscription list. His popularity only declined with the people and senators after his deal with Antony and Octavian.- For all his qualities, I'm not sure Pompeius would be able to replicate Octavian's manoeuvures once in power in Rome. He had scruples where Octavian didn't and would probably not do the thing with revealing his will, etc. The name of Pompeius carried less weight with the plebs and legions than that of Caesar: where Octavian managed, over a decade, to attain parity with the authority and prestige of Antony, Pompeius the pirate adventurer would be at a distinct disadvantage.
True. I admit I exaggerated it a bit, but I guess you can chalk that up to history being written by the victors, who in this case is Sextus Pompey.- Antony's affair with Cleopatra wasn't scandalous, certainly not as early as 37BC. Roman generals having fun in the provinces was either unimportant or approved of. There was no inkling she'd be anything more than a Glaphyra of Cappadocia or Eunoe of Mauretania. Antony's popularity certainly wasn't at a freefall - he was still riding high as late as the early 30s BC, despite absence from Rome and the relentless efforts of Octavian against him. Here Antonius is not only Caesar, he is the sole victor of Philippi (instead of having to share the glory with Octavian).
Sextus did send the necessary troops. Antony was still eager for a quick campaign, and I didn't think it would change up his strategy much (which itself was sound), and with his speed, I wagered there was still a chance he would let the baggage train lag behind.- Antony's eastern campaigns would not proceed the same as OTL. His efforts were damaged by Octavian's constant calls for conferences on Italian soil (he showed up twice only for Brundisium to be closed to him) and eventually when they did come to terms, it involved an exchange of Antony's ships for Octavian's men. Pompeius would almost certainly follow through on whatever he agreed to, his honour would demand it of him.
Most of the Caesarian officers did stick with Antony. Antony forced Bassus into retirement as he did OTL, and Pompey was quick to fan the flames for his anger at Antony ITTL, getting him to join him, if only initially for his desire to remain in public life and get back at Antony.- OTL Philippi left what was left of the Republicans to Antonius. With Octavian's death, the municipals he liked so much and Caesarian officers he inherited would almost certainly go over to Caesar Antonius as well, as Salvidienus came close to doing when he was govern of Gaul OTL.
This really only happened because they were allowed to travel back to Rome when the deal between Antony, Octavian, and Pompey was concluded. Here, they are allowed back, but Pompey is now up on the highest stage as a triumvir, and his power is larger than it ever was. So I took a little liberty here and most decided to remain loyal to the second most powerful man in Rome.Pompeius would be left with his Greek freedmen and dwindling minority of Roman aristocrats - see how even OTL Tiberius Nero and others went over to Antonius.
While they had in the past, there was no sign the soldiers were going to do so OTL at Actium. This isn't about two Caesarian forces like it was OTL. Sure, they had done their best to stave off Roman blood being shed until Actium, but the Pompeian soldiers were almost completely recruited by Pompey, and were loyal to the Pompeian faction, not the Caesarian faction as a whole, as both sides were OTL.In all likelihood delegations of soldiers, as they had did several times OTL, would negotiate with Antonius and Pompeius and force them to make peace/ alternatively, Pompeius would see his legions and officers break off and pledge service to Caesar Antonius. Before deserting to Pompeius, Antonius' soldiers would undoubtedly sent a delegation to him first, and once the truth was revealed, Pompeius would be in very dire straits indeed.
True, I may have made a mistake there. I don't think that's one I can change at this point, so anyway to make it sound more believable?- Cleopatra was a consummate stateswoman and, above all, a survivor. She would not abandon Caesar Antonius willy-nilly. She would not risk her head for a few ships. Egypt didn't lack gold, with the lands and monopolies she obtained from Antony she was incredibly wealthy. As Octavian's efforts against Pompeius clearly demonstrated, navies could be destroyed and rebuilt. She would either sit the battle out and make her escape after defeat (as she did OTL, obviously expecting to sex or bribe her way to live another day afterwards) or, at the very most, only ditch Antony after having secured an understanding with the other side. She would have no wish to, however, given the superiority of his position and person vs Pompeius and Agrippa.
This is something I might be able to work with. It actually leaves me with more options than what I initially did would. I'll probably change this up to have Cleopatra fleeing to Parthia.- If Cleopatra was crazy enough to do something like that and spur of the moment run away, in the most unqueenly fashion and to the complete detriment of her reputation and honour, she would be sure to escape. Like Labienus and others before her, she would most likely found refuge with the Parthians and count on them restoring her to power.
True, but it's not totally out of the realm of possibility is it? Sextus wants to weaken the power of the Ptolemies as much as possible, and wants to make sure that when Arsinoe dies, Egypt becomes a Roman province.- In Roman thinking, bastard children took after the mother. Cleopatra's children were Greeks to all intents and purposes. Pompeius would most likely negate Caesarion's paternity and force him and Cleopatra to acknowledge her brother-husband as his biological father. At this point he would be most likely left behind with Arsinoe (auntie-wife?) instead of going to Rome for education.
IOTL, she actually offered something similar to Octavian. IIRC, she practically begged him to let Caesarion live.- Cleopatra was a Ptolemy at the end of the day. I don't think she'd flinch at having a child of hers die if it could benefit her in any way.
- Cleopatra Selene would likely go to Rome with Alexander Helios, as per OTL. She was too young for marriage and would be useful as a back-up Egyptian heir (failing Arsinoe etc). Here Juba doesn't have a personal relationship with Pompeius to come into play and benefit him as OTL. Juba made sense as a match OTL where he was a safe match, with no pretensions in the East, Octavian's personal friend, and raised in Rome as the girl had been raised in Rome. Here, in a tumultous drama-filled era which may or may not be over, Pompeius would most likely play it safe instead of handing her over to some random client king.
I have plans for Pompeius to recall him from exile shortly.- Antyllus would be a danger as long as he lived, however, I don't know of many examples of Romans sent on exile, only Lepidus. I think it's far more likely for Antyllus to either be done away with or rehabilitated completely (ie, allowed to inherit his father's property, marry, stand for office in due time, and generally be subsumed into the new regime as a public icon of Magnus Pius' clementia).
Is there a reason it's far fetched? I'm not too familiar with Roman titles and praenomens.- I can see Pompeius imitating Octavian's use of Imperator as a praenomen, OTL he innovated styling himself Magnus Pompeius Pius on occassion, but Augustus seems farfetched. He might accept some high-sounding title such as custodian of the Republic (Curator Res Publicae? not sure on that one) without any legal power but bestowing/recognizing his supreme auctoritas.
Indeed. I'll delve more into that soon.- Pompeius was a philhellene through and through. Wouldn't be surprised to see his beloved Greeks entering the Senate if he's the one in power.