Is OTL an FRG-wank?

Are we leaving in a Bundesrepublik-wank?

  • Yes, we are.

    Votes: 19 42.2%
  • No, we aren't.

    Votes: 26 57.8%

  • Total voters
    45
It won't be a Neo-German* wank until Neo-Germany can legitimately spend as much of it's GDP on defence as France does, and legitimately use coercion as a tool of foreign policy the way other countries do. Germany could almost double it's defence budget if it matched France and Britain's spending levels, that could buy the tools for military power projection, especially if done in joint projects with other European powers.


* The current, reunified, Germany from 1991.
 
It won't be a Neo-German* wank until Neo-Germany can legitimately spend as much of it's GDP on defence as France does, and legitimately use coercion as a tool of foreign policy the way other countries do. Germany could almost double it's defence budget if it matched France and Britain's spending levels, that could buy the tools for military power projection, especially if done in joint projects with other European powers.


* The current, reunified, Germany from 1991.

"Neo-German?" De-jure, there isn't much of a difference between the Federal Republic prior and after reunification. De-facto of course, we practically annexed the GDR! :D

Oh, and the Reunification was in 1990. :rolleyes:
 
Well, the whole theme "Evil Greens, evil Commies in Germany are against war even in case of alien invasion" theme. It's absurd. The best part is that the Greens and the Linke don't even like each other! :rolleyes:

Plus, it's yet another case where Kratman demonifies Old Europe...

Personally, I thought he was wanking Europe (think about it... RUSSIA is defeated by an enemy who can't stand artillery and a cold climate, but Germany holds out?)...

I actually didn't find it too plausible. I mean, these people simply refused to acknowledge that an alien invasion was coming; that's a perfectly normal reaction of denial in an absurd situation. As for the leadership who worked with the Darhel, they were just being selfish and corrupt; you'll notice Kratman gives Panamanian crooks and oligarchs the same treatment in Yellow Eyes.

(And if you knew about our Greens in Sweden, you'd not be so sure that they would support fighting for the country. I know, ours are more extreme than yours...)
 
Personally, I thought he was wanking Europe (think about it... RUSSIA is defeated by an enemy who can't stand artillery and a cold climate, but Germany holds out?)...

In that way, yes.

I actually didn't find it too plausible. I mean, these people simply refused to acknowledge that an alien invasion was coming; that's a perfectly normal reaction of denial in an absurd situation. As for the leadership who worked with the Darhel, they were just being selfish and corrupt; you'll notice Kratman gives Panamanian crooks and oligarchs the same treatment in Yellow Eyes.

I see.

(And if you knew about our Greens in Sweden, you'd not be so sure that they would support fighting for the country. I know, ours are more extreme than yours...)

Well, that's a point. I admit my knowledge about Swedish politics is nil. :eek:

In regard for our Greens, I'd say, over here the Greens have been seriously numbed down by being part of the coalition running the country for seven years. Also, the emergence of the Lefties has made them move even further to the center, with some people even seeking ties with the conservatives... :rolleyes:
 
In regard for our Greens, I'd say, over here the Greens have been seriously numbed down by being part of the coalition running the country for seven years. Also, the emergence of the Lefties has made them move even further to the center, with some people even seeking ties with the conservatives... :rolleyes:

Always something, I guess. Are they still against both global warming and nuclear power?
 
Always something, I guess. Are they still against both global warming and nuclear power?

Yes. The irony is, there's already a black-green coalition in the city-state of Hamburg, and to much of the dismay of the Greens, the coalition recently pulled through the construction of a new coal power plant... :rolleyes:

In regard for nuclear phase-out, I believe a black-yellow coalition will emerge from the elections next year, and the phaseout will be likely removed, or at the very least delayed to an indefinite later point.
 
Yes. The irony is, there's already a black-green coalition in the city-state of Hamburg, and to much of the dismay of the Greens, the coalition recently pulled through the construction of a new coal power plant... :rolleyes:

In regard for nuclear phase-out, I believe a black-yellow coalition will emerge from the elections next year, and the phaseout will be likely removed, or at the very least delayed to an indefinite later point.

What's "black" and "yellow" in German politics? Sorry for my ignorance, but "black" in Swedish sounds like anarchists or fascists, and I don't think you have those in governing positions, and "yellow"... that'd be either Chinese or Posleen.:p
 
What's "black" and "yellow" in German politics? Sorry for my ignorance, but "black" in Swedish sounds like anarchists or fascists, and I don't think you have those in governing positions, and "yellow"... that'd be either Chinese or Posleen.:p

black is christian democrats, who are the heirs of the catholic Centre party. The black comes from the frock of the catholic priests, leading the faithful to the ballot boxes in the fearful prussian 19th minds.

Yellow is liberal. Just think of bed-wetting. :D
 
black is christian democrats, who are the heirs of the catholic Centre party. The black comes from the frock of the catholic priests, leading the faithful to the ballot boxes in the fearful prussian 19th minds.

Yellow is liberal. Just think of bed-wetting. :D

Of course!:p I should've known...
 
Nah, I don't think it qualifies as a wank.

Any decent FRG-wank would include the FRG recovering territories in the east and peacefully uniting with Austria, gaining a UNSC seat, being the de-facto leader of the European Union, and kickass pre-WW1 birthrates. And nukes. :D

Well, that's the whole teen wank aspect. Except for the birthrates (and please God not pre-WWI, the dem,ographic problems would be awful), none of that is good for anything much. Whereas high economic growth, social stability, good education and high-tech industries actually do good things for you (which is why our government has been fighting them all the way, I guess).
 
Well, that's the whole teen wank aspect. Except for the birthrates (and please God not pre-WWI, the dem,ographic problems would be awful), none of that is good for anything much. Whereas high economic growth, social stability, good education and high-tech industries actually do good things for you (which is why our government has been fighting them all the way, I guess).

Birth rates today in Germany aren't quite as catastrophic as one might think. In most parts of western Germany, they're anywhere between 1.5-1.7 kids per woman, depending on the area. In eastern Germany OTOH, they're at 1.3 and below... communism's glorious legacy! :rolleyes:
 
I voted "no" for the simple reason that the FRG never really dared to assert herself due to all the sackcloth-and-ashes thing that has been going on since WW2, especially in the left-of-center population but also in the more conservative circles. Economic power reaches only so far, after all.

As much as I despise Gerd Gazprom, uh, sorry, Gerhard Schröder, he was the first chancellor to decisively draw several lines in the sand and shed part of the German guilt complex (that's about the only positive thing I'll say about that prick).

And the younger generation (those born in the seventies and later) in my opinion shows less and less willingness to be bullied around with the guilt-mace...

Never forget, all right, but let's not shoot ourselves in the knee at every opportunity.

So maybe it's an FRG-economy-wank :D
 
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The total about-face that Germany did in one generation in OTL would be cited as one of the least realistic aspects of our timeline.

I'm not so sure; there was a... not pacifism, but fear of another war in Germany in the 1930s. Is it pacifism if you oppose war not from moral principles, but because you think you'll end up with the Reds running your nation?

Lurking around somewhere is a Germany that has the same reaction to the Great War as France; how to get it, though...
 

General Zod

Banned
Well, that's the whole teen wank aspect. Except for the birthrates (and please God not pre-WWI, the dem,ographic problems would be awful), none of that is good for anything much. Whereas high economic growth, social stability, good education and high-tech industries actually do good things for you (which is why our government has been fighting them all the way, I guess).

I have to disgree. Germany being the defacto leader of the EU would provide a much better leadership than "we can't decide whether we want to lead it or wreck it" France, or "we join it just to cripple it from within" Britain. :rolleyes: As for peaceful union with Austria, apart from simply correcting a bad mistake of the TL (same as Canada :p), it would provide additional good economic potential to the expanded country.
 
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