Is it possible for Germany to be considered a non-Western country?

(Though now I can see they cleverly added the Rhineland at least to the western European state, which is a really smart move, as this is basically an industrial backbone between the alps and the dutch ports; but again, the choice seems to be strategical rather than cultural)

The Ruhr area is where the industry is.

Also, is Northern Ireland part of Eire?
 
Quite lenient, to be fair. Germany keeps Austria and most of the eastern territories. Sure, France gets to annex Rhineland, but we know how well this played out with the Saar...
Is there already timeline based on that map?

When the eastern bloc collapses, things might get somewhat awkward there, if a significant german-speaking minority was allowed to remain in the annected territories.
Would the United States of Europe absorb post-socialist Germany, or would Germany (and th german minorities) demand re-annexation of the Rhineland, leading to a bloody struggle (with germany unable to attack France, but sponsoring terrorism)? Or would the German minority in the west simply have turned into loyal, patriotic west europeanns by then, not thinking of themselves as "german" any more than the german-speaking Swiss do?
 
... and in large parts 'changed' that with reformation. Therefore I would render your comment valid for post-reformation christian faiths as well.

And with that :
would you render
Poland
Lithunia
Lattvia
Estonia
Czechia
Slovakia​
also as "western" countries ?​

Honestly, I do consider Poland and the Czech/Slovaks "western". I don't know that much about the history of the Baltic countries, so I wouldn't be able to answer that with confidence. Weren't they pagans until the Prussians came in, though?
 
Honestly, I do consider Poland and the Czech/Slovaks "western". I don't know that much about the history of the Baltic countries, so I wouldn't be able to answer that with confidence. Weren't they pagans until the Prussians came in, though?
Prussians never "came in".

Germans came in and then appropriated that name.
 
Quite lenient, to be fair. Germany keeps Austria and most of the eastern territories. Sure, France gets to annex Rhineland, but we know how well this played out with the Saar...
This map was self-published by some guy, who made it before the US entered WWII. Still, the map shows fun things like what the Frank Joseph Islands used to be named before the Soviets seized them.


Anyways, as for the title of the thread... No. They would need to change the meaning of the term a fair bit, such as having Western only referring to Western Europeans, while making Germany considered more as Central European,
 
The Soviets could have conquered all of Germany, but then they could have conquered France too, and that would not have made France "non-western" except in the political sense.

True, but Germany had been slower in moving towards democracy than France. If they'd become part of the Warsaw Pact and had little democratic history outside of the Weimar years, they might have had the same sorts of "growing pains" as some of the other post-communist countries and developed a similar image in terms of how their cultural and political traditions are now regarded. France would have had a more significant cultural memory of democracy, and whatever the problems in the Third Republic, it did at least survive until the country was conquered rather than eating itself alive the way the Weimar Republic did.

I also wonder whether, if all of Germany had been under Soviet influence until the fall of the Iron Curtain, the eastward expansion of NATO might have proceeded more slowly, given that the Warsaw Pact nations weren't admitted into NATO immediately.
 
True, but Germany had been slower in moving towards democracy than France. If they'd become part of the Warsaw Pact and had little democratic history outside of the Weimar years, they might have had the same sorts of "growing pains" as some of the other post-communist countries and developed a similar image in terms of how their cultural and political traditions are now regarded. France would have had a more significant cultural memory of democracy, and whatever the problems in the Third Republic, it did at least survive until the country was conquered rather than eating itself alive the way the Weimar Republic did.

I also wonder whether, if all of Germany had been under Soviet influence until the fall of the Iron Curtain, the eastward expansion of NATO might have proceeded more slowly, given that the Warsaw Pact nations weren't admitted into NATO immediately.
Would the Soviets treat the Germans differently if they conquered the entirety of Germany? In the West i think that a large minority will support Soviet conquest of Germany, to "make the Germans pay!" but most people would see it as a negative. Western leaders would be especially dissapointed.
 
Roman influence makes a country western.

Germany is western because it adopted the Latin script and some notion of being a Roman empire, plus it adopted Roman Catholicism.

Germany became western in the year 800 when Charlemagne was crowned Roman emperor by the Pope.

Another thing that I think affects perception of Western-ness that I don't think has been brought up is language. Western countries speak either Germanic or Italic languages (ignoring minority languages for the moment). Germany, like Scandinavia, the Netherlands and the British Isles, speaks a Germanic language and thus I think it will be perceived as a Western culture even if politically it is aligned with the Soviet Union. It would take a massive Slavicization of German society to change that.
 
Would the Soviets treat the Germans differently if they conquered the entirety of Germany? In the West i think that a large minority will support Soviet conquest of Germany, to "make the Germans pay!" but most people would see it as a negative. Western leaders would be especially dissapointed.
It depends if the Soviets steal every last scrap of technology east of the Rhine as part of a de-industralization policy to turn Germany back into a pasture or not. If Germany winds up totally de-industrialized than it will take decades for them to bounce back to pre-war levels since they will be basically starting from nothing. If that dosen't happen, than than the Germans can rebuild their industry and become a major player in the communist bloc.

Some threads with a Soviet Germany:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/political-setup-of-communist-europe.169138/
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...in-take-over-western-europe-after-ww2.393095/
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/wwii-soviet-union-get-all-of-germany.306467/
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/wi-soviets-conquer-all-of-germany.299876/
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/wi-all-of-europe-soviet-after-wwii.351847/
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/effects-of-a-more-soviet-dominated-europe.87159/
 
The Soviets could have conquered all of Germany, but then they could have conquered France too, and that would not have made France "non-western" except in the political sense.

My own view is that Prussia after the Partitions of Poland could be seen as a partly non-western state (it being largely Slavic) as could Hapsburg Austria. But once the post-Napoleonic peace settlement detached most of ethnic Poland from Prussia and anchored Prussia firmly in the West by giving it the Rhineland, any future Prussia-based German state was going to be culturally a part of the West whatever its political orientation.
really when?

Germany was always western Europe.
strategic, and important.. He'll almost every European royal family had german roots and ..
many poles who came to the usa where German at the time.
 
the western powers could have gotten too.. Maybe not taken.. But gotten close to Berlin.

Germany is western because culturally it is western .. Scientific, mathematics, royal bloodlines, music, literature
German and English are close brethren as well.

Russians while western stretch across Asia, had tatar and Mongol, byzantine and Turkic influences, this influenced Slavic perceptions in the west which is centered on Rome or England, or German Protestantism.

also slavs until 1918 were on the old calendar, iconism is big in orthodox religion, church is run byzantine style..

things that Roman Catholics, angelica and Lutherans all do different, yet, similar to each other
 
really when?

Germany was always western Europe.
strategic, and important.. He'll almost every European royal family had german roots and ..
many poles who came to the usa where German at the time.
Polish in what sense? German in what sense?
 
The obvious solution is Germany under Soviet control. What’s unclear is how to get there since the US and UK wanted Germany as well and neither Churchill nor Truman was willing to fuck around with Stalin, a man they really didn’t trust farther than they could throw.

One possibility is that Hirohito gets assassinated and Tojo somehow takes his place and refuses to surrender. This means America is too busy invading and blockading Japan to spend too much time on Germany, which probably means it goes 50-50 between the Soviets and the West. East Germany gets all of Berlin, so the West has to call it a loss and get another capital. Then while the US is still recovering and rebuilding Japan, Stalin stirs up enough shit in West Germany to flip them. Voila - the Soviets have their grubby mitts all over Germany and their influence is enough to negate any “Western” status.
 
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