Is it possible for Electric Cars to become the standard?

[Carl Schwamberger]

That's a disaster waiting to happen. Those caternary wires are deadly. And you want Joe Blow from down the street to be connecting and disconnecting his car to them on a daily basis? One mistake raising or lowering the pantograph, and Joe is getting lit up like a Christmas tree.

As soon as highway speeds hit 30+kph became possible the death rate from petrol fueled cars became a disaster. In the 1960s the automobile accident death rate was pushing above 40,000 per year in the US. Some folks wrung their hands over it but most took another swig of beer and hit the accelerator. Electric trolley accidents were not uncommon in those days.

What about if we don't need cars for majority of travel ? Could really cheap and widespread railway network develop ? and possibly subway / tram in cities ? an European / East Coast wide version of Japanese Shinkansen with subway in cities.

That can work in densely populated areas. In the US its better for most folks to use the subway/train in a few cites. Even with heavy subsidies its tough in the other 99.99% of the US to come close.

1st Problem is taking the overhead DC voltage(600V at minimum), and getting that to a voltage and current level that won't smoke your battery tray. For WWI era, easiest way is a motor-generator set.
2nd is rubber tires prevent a ground path to complete the circuit to Ground/Earth
So you would have to drag a long steel chain(s), like a drag harrow, to hope to make good contact with the street rails for the circuit to complete

A closer look at the technology is necessary here. I suspect there are some good workarounds from the technical PoV, but those may not be cost effective.

Yet another direction is swapping out battery trays at the road side service station. Again that may or may not be cost effective, but can be technically feasible.

 

[SsgtC]

As soon as highway speeds hit 30+kph became possible the death rate from petrol fueled cars became a disaster. In the 1960s the automobile accident death rate was pushing above 40,000 per year in the US. Some folks wrung their hands over it but most took another swig of beer and hit the accelerator. Electric trolley accidents were not uncommon in those days.

That's apples and oranges. It's not real difficult to make drinking and driving illegal or to require car manufactures to put things like seat belts in the car. There is no way to make hooking up a pantograph safer. You're always going to be dealing with 600V DC going straight to your car. Or straight to you if you mess up. Even today, dewires still happen in trolleybuses. And when they do, the bus driver literally pulls on a rope to reconnect his wire to the overhead. That's a level of danger you can't lower.

A closer look at the technology is necessary here. I suspect there are some good workarounds from the technical PoV, but those may not be cost effective.

Yet another direction is swapping out battery trays at the road side service station. Again that may or may not be cost effective, but can be technically feasible.

Look at the system trolleybuses use. It's a two wire system to compete the circuit. I suspect that's what would be used here.

 

[fscott]

Not necessarily would you have to drag chains to make the circuit. I know of at least three cities where the old fashioned trolleys ran who used to set up like the trolley buses use now of two wires overhead. They because it was easier than a break in the track can cause your ground to go out. Columbus Ohio Dayton Ohio and and Indianapolis IN are the three that I'm familiar familiar with. Henry Ford's wife had a friend whose whose husband got killed while cranking a car. She drove an electric car until starters were included on the engine. One way to make electric cars work would be getting the range up to 250 to 300 miles. Worldwide the automakers come up with a standard of two or three different places the battery can be placed. So you pull into the electric station the battery pack is pulled out and a charge one is put in, they can add a little extra to cover the battery replacement when I get older and the driver doesn't have to worry about it. I've seen a Prius battery and it was much smaller than I expected so this would be a viable alternative giving you various options including plug-in recharge.

 

[Driftless]

Early days - if you have a means of mitigating the range, could you have seen a mix of electric cars, along with diesel trucks? Diesel for the low end torque and longer over-the-road range that heavy haulers need.

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

Electric motors and battery packs, with a small gas engine to generate and supplement power?

That's apples and oranges. It's not real difficult to make drinking and driving illegal

It was illegal, & had been for decades but the death toll was still running up towards 50,000 per year. Driving stupid was long regarded as a Constitutional Right.

... or to require car manufactures to put things like seat belts in the car. ...

Even today vigorous law enforcement and built in interlocks don't prevent folks to routinely avoid seat belt use. The death toll in the US is still around 30,000 yearly.

There is no way to make hooking up a pantograph safer.

That seems to me to a bit overstated...

 

[marathag]

Yet another direction is swapping out battery trays at the road side service station. Again that may or may not be cost effective, but can be technically feasible.

Some early electric delivery trucks, like from Milburn Wagon Company, tried that, but still was more expensive to where IC trucks took over.

Like the Milburn truck, could buy the truck for $1200, and use the free battery swap service their dealers provided, but for that money, you could buy two Model TT trucks that had a 35mph top speed vs the 20mph of the Milburn, and could refuel anywhere gasoline was sold

 

[marathag]

Early days - if you have a means of mitigating the range, could you have seen a mix of electric cars, along with diesel trucks? Diesel for the low end torque and longer over-the-road range that heavy haulers need.

OTL the US was world leader in electric vehicles*, with over 30,000 registered by WWI

Diesel was slow in acceptance until they went to injection. Before them, you had the so called distillate engines, but they were far heavier and low rpm than Gasoline, so saw little use outside of tractors

the lead acid batteries in the early electric cars and trucks rarely exceeded 75 miles in range, they were just too heavy for the capacity they offered. Some of them, the batteries were over a third of the vehicle weight as it was.

*to be fair, US was the leader of all types of road vehicles

 

[kernals12]

Shouldn't this be in Future History?

 

[The Plainsman]

One way to make electric cars work would be getting the range up to 250 to 300 miles. Worldwide the automakers come up with a standard of two or three different places the battery can be placed. So you pull into the electric station the battery pack is pulled out and a charge one is put in

That would be interesting. I can see the electric station being, as you said, a place where you can exchange a dead battery for a charged one for a fee. And then the station would charge the dead batteries to be traded off again. But as Marathag said, some of the batteries themselves were 1/3 the weight of the car. So it could work, but not as easily as putting gas in a tank.

Electric motors and battery packs, with a small gas engine to generate and supplement power?

So basically as hybrid.

 

[The Plainsman]

Shouldn't this be in Future History?

No. Were talking about electric cars of the early 20th century, not into the future.

 

[fscott]

That would be interesting. I can see the electric station being, as you said, a place where you can exchange a dead battery for a charged one for a fee. And then the station would charge the dead batteries to be traded off again. But as Marathag said, some of the batteries themselves were 1/3 the weight of the car. So it could work, but not as easily as putting gas in a tank.


So basically as hybrid.

I think eventually that would change. If there's a worldwide standard and you don't use it when you're building cars then people are going to go by your car because it's too much of a hassle.

 

[kernals12]

There are a bunch of advances in technology needed to get us to batteries that are practical for electric cars, I don't see how you can move this up by 1 century.

 

[kernals12]

It's all on the battery capacity, even in Europe where shorter distances prevail.

The most popular I can see them being is a worse Oil Crisis of the early 1970s, which skyrockets oil prices in Europe who were dependent on Middle Eastern oil. This spurs electric development, particularly in France with it's plentiful cheaper nuclear energy, with battery development increasing from the 50 miles or so in the 1970s to 150 in the 1990s. By the end of the 20th century, electric cars are the norm in most of Europe, and making significant inroads in to areas of North America; the East Coast, California, Chicago area. Japan and South Korea have also experienced a similar switch to Europe.

So you think the reason we didn't have electric cars in 2000 is because we didn't try hard enough to find a better battery? Even when gas is cheap, any auto industry executive would give up one of their limbs for a better battery.

 

[kernals12]

Petroleum cost would be higher for a country forced to import all from abroad, so locally produced electricity might be a cheaper alternative for transport

No it wouldn't. transport costs are a small percentage of oil prices and the law of one price means that prices are the same everywhere.

 

[The Plainsman]

There are a bunch of advances in technology needed to get us to batteries that are practical for electric cars, I don't see how you can move this up by 1 century.

Because I was curious to see if it could happen in the early 1900's. That's why it's not in future history.

 

[kernals12]

Because I was curious to see if it could happen in the early 1900's. That's why it's not in future history.

Unless a supervillain zaps away all the world's oil reserves, the answer is no.

 

[1940LaSalle]

Not only were batteries effectively limiting, but there was a major hurdle in recharging those batteries. One invested in either a mercury rectifier (a truly terrifying device from a modern viewpoint) or somehow pirated DC power from a nearby streetcar line (not trivial, since that meant playing around with a live source of 600 VDC, which of course could be fatal). And in either case, lead/sulfuric acid batteries took hours to re-charge fully.

If you're looking to have an alternative to internal combustion engines on the Otto cycle, improved steam engines-perhaps using a flash boiler in the same manner as the Doble steamers in the late 1920s-would seem to be a better option.

 

[kernals12]

Not only were batteries effectively limiting, but there was a major hurdle in recharging those batteries. One invested in either a mercury rectifier (a truly terrifying device from a modern viewpoint) or somehow pirated DC power from a nearby streetcar line (not trivial, since that meant playing around with a live source of 600 VDC, which of course could be fatal). And in either case, lead/sulfuric acid batteries took hours to re-charge fully.

If you're looking to have an alternative to internal combustion engines on the Otto cycle, improved steam engines-perhaps using a flash boiler in the same manner as the Doble steamers in the late 1920s-would seem to be a better option.

steam engines are heavy, bulky, consume a ton of water, and can't easily have their speed changed, which you need in a car.

 

[marathag]

steam engines are heavy, bulky, consume a ton of water, and can't easily have their speed changed, which you need in a car.

The major problem with a lot of steam was the excess of power.
Steam engines give just as much torque at 1 rpm as 3000rpm

So with a Stanley Steamer, rated as '20 HP' had more than twice as much torque as a 1990 Dodge Ram Diesel Pickup, around 1000ft.lbs

Full throttle from a dead stop would result in spinning the tires right off the rims. There was no need for a transmission, it had all the torque anyone could ask for, needed no gearing changes to keep in the powerband

One of those '20' HP Stanleys held the world land speed record of 127mph in 1906, with a change in gearing and a streamlined body
Not bad for this

 

[Blue cat]

Not only were batteries effectively limiting, but there was a major hurdle in recharging those batteries. One invested in either a mercury rectifier (a truly terrifying device from a modern viewpoint) or somehow pirated DC power from a nearby streetcar line (not trivial, since that meant playing around with a live source of 600 VDC, which of course could be fatal). And in either case, lead/sulfuric acid batteries took hours to re-charge fully.

I seem to recall that DC power distribution to consumers was by no means un heard of in the early part of the 20th century ? An interesting what if (for me anyways) is if Electric cars were popular, perhaps DC power distribution might have been more popular although I expect AC would still eventually have taken over.

I could see a simple electric car being quite popular if it had perhaps a nominal 96 volt lead acid battery system to facilitate fairly simple recharging from say a 110 to 115 Volt DC line ? (I expect this type of arrangement might not meet modern safety standards ?)