Could something like that work? Maybe as a result of a surviving Stresa front? France and Britain weren‘t particular eager to invade Germany to guarantee Polish independence, they might prefer if Italy and Poland (maybe Czechoslovakia as well) do it for them instead.

Could there be a war between Germany and a hypothetical Italo-Polish-(Czech?) alliance, maybe over Austria, or the Sudeten crisis, or tensions between Poland and Germany regarding the corridor, while France and Britain watch from the sidelines?

I just had this idea recently, where such an alliance existed and war broke out (Italy and Poland declared war first), while France and Britain stayed nominally neutral, but supported Germany‘s enemies diplomatically, happy that Hitler would be contained without having to lift a finger themselves. But that didn‘t work out for them, because Germany defeated Poland and Czechoslovakia relatively quickly, while staying on the defensive against the Italians in the south. Afterward Italy and Poland had to accept the German Anschluss of Austria and the restoration of 1914 borders in the east, while Bohemia was annexed and Slovakia became a client state. France and Britain weren‘t happy, but couldn‘t really complain too much, since Germany didn‘t declare war first, though they exerted pressure to ensure that Hitler left Poland independent (minus the corridor and Posen, of course).

Just tell me if such a thing is even remotely possible, or if i‘m talking nonsense. This scenario just wouldn‘t leave me alone, because it‘s so weird. Hitler has basically achieved Grossdeutschland, but without defeating Britain and France, who are like ‚Wait, what…?‘, while Stalin is frowning in the east, suddenly even more concerned about Germany than before.

Could we see a kind-of-but-not-quite-an-alliance between the western powers and the Soviets afterward? Would Hitler even try to attack anyone at that point, knowing it would mean a two-front war?
 

The Avenger

Banned
An alliance between Italy and Poland is possible if Germany claims both Italian (South Tyrol) and Polish (the Polish Corridor) territory. Czechoslovakia can join this alliance if Germany claims the Sudetenland and Lithuania can join this alliance if Germany claims Memel and if it's mature enough to forgive Poland for taking Vilnius.
 
I just had this idea recently, where such an alliance existed and war broke out (Italy and Poland declared war first), while France and Britain stayed nominally neutral, but supported Germany‘s enemies diplomatically, happy that Hitler would be contained without having to lift a finger themselves. But that didn‘t work out for them, because Germany defeated Poland and Czechoslovakia relatively quickly, while staying on the defensive against the Italians in the south. Afterward Italy and Poland had to accept the German Anschluss of Austria and the restoration of 1914 borders in the east, while Bohemia was annexed and Slovakia became a client state. France and Britain weren‘t happy, but couldn‘t really complain too much, since Germany didn‘t declare war first, though they exerted pressure to ensure that Hitler left Poland independent (minus the corridor and Posen, of course).

The problem in this scenario is that without Italy support neither the Rhineland remilitarization or the Anshluss had that great possibility of being succesfull, hell even normal industrial and agricoltural production will be problematic as italian workers were very important, numerous and more important trusted. If this happen as implied before Monaco, German victory it's very far from certain, frankly it's more probable the contrary, they have just started rearming and need Austria and Czechoslovakian resources to do it properly. On the other side, both UK and France just support Italy mean that overnight a lot of logistic problems that had plagued the italian armed forces in OTL WW2 now are no more.
 
that would really be an unappealing WWII for the US to enter though, a surviving Stresa Front (with recent deal to digest Ethiopia) vs. Germany
 
The problem in this scenario is that without Italy support neither the Rhineland remilitarization or the Anshluss had that great possibility of being succesfull, hell even normal industrial and agricoltural production will be problematic as italian workers were very important, numerous and more important trusted. If this happen as implied before Monaco, German victory it's very far from certain, frankly it's more probable the contrary, they have just started rearming and need Austria and Czechoslovakian resources to do it properly. On the other side, both UK and France just support Italy mean that overnight a lot of logistic problems that had plagued the italian armed forces in OTL WW2 now are no more.

If such a war would happen it would probably be after German rearmament was already in full swing, certainly after 1936. I doubt Hitler would risk war any sooner than that.
 
If such a war would happen it would probably be after German rearmament was already in full swing, certainly after 1936. I doubt Hitler would risk war any sooner than that.

But as i said, such type of rearmament can happen only after taking Austria and Czechoslovackia with their resources, gold reserves and factories, like the Skoda as the entire nazi economy was basically a gigantic pyramid scheme, but without Italy neither the Anshluss or a succesfull Monaco it's possible.
 
Czechoslovakia was very osely allied with Italy in 1918/19.
During war with Hungary 1918/19 in its earlier days Italian military mission and Italian officers with Czechoslovak legions (some 56 battalions) built in Italy were involved. Czechoslovakia at the time was balancing between Rome and Paris.
But of course Poles would end up in Paris camp as they didn’t had any military units built in Italy as far as I know.
 

The Avenger

Banned
An alliance between Italy and Poland is possible if Germany claims both Italian (South Tyrol) and Polish (the Polish Corridor) territory. Czechoslovakia can join this alliance if Germany claims the Sudetenland and Lithuania can join this alliance if Germany claims Memel and if it's mature enough to forgive Poland for taking Vilnius.
Ofc, it would be nice if Britain and France also joined this alliance. I don't think that Italy, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Lithuania would be strong enough to fight Germany on their own (as in, together but without any outside help)--at least not after Germany rearms.
 
Ofc, it would be nice if Britain and France also joined this alliance. I don't think that Italy, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Lithuania would be strong enough to fight Germany on their own (as in, together but without any outside help)--at least not after Germany rearms.

the same could be said of all the overlapping alliances primarily organized by/with France in Eastern Europe? (like trying to stand minions on one another's shoulders)

the Italy-Poland idea at least does not have any territorial issues clouding it, if the Polish-Romanian defensive agreement could have been folded in? you have Little Entente and Balkan Pact but anything that includes Yugoslavia then Italy will not join?
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Against whom? Germany seem to be the only potential common enemy. Otherwise Poland and Italy has very different sets of friends and enemies.

Polish friends: Hungary, Romania, France
Polish enemies: Czechoslovakia, Germany, Lithuania, USSR

while for Italy:
Italian friends: Hungary, Bulgaria, Austria, Albania (yes, it's weird)
Nations Italy didn't like much: Greece, Yugoslavia, Ethiopia
Relatively neutral attitude (all considered potential threats): France, UK, Germany
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
Against whom? Germany seem to be the only potential common enemy. Otherwise Poland and Italy has very different sets of friends and enemies.

Polish friends: Hungary, Romania, France
Polish enemies: Czechoslovakia, Germany, Lithuania, USSR

while for Italy:
Italian friends: Hungary, Bulgaria, Austria, Albania (yes, it's weird)
Nations Italy didn't like much: Greece, Yugoslavia, Ethiopia
Relatively neutral attitude (all considered potential threats): France, UK, Germany
If Italy considers Austria and Hungary to be its friends then Czechoslovakia is also its enemy by proxy.
 
Against whom? Germany seem to be the only potential common enemy. Otherwise Poland and Italy has very different sets of friends and enemies.

it would create a much different scenario if Nationalist coup in Spain either succeeds or is crushed, so no Spanish Civil War, no shared military effort by German and Italy. for duration of the conflict there could be no reviving of the Stresa Front and the other hand no German-Soviet pact (even if only a trade agreement.)
 
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