Is a Permanently Divided China Plausible?

With the Wei, Han and Zhao as the Holy Roman Empire, the Qin as the shadow kingdom, the Zhou Dynasty as the Papal States, the Qi as the French, the Yue as the Spanish, the Yan as Poland, Korea as the English and Japan as the Norsemen!

...OK this doesn't make sense.
Qin was basically Prussia on crack.
 

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These threads pop up every so often. Why are people so fascinated about tearing apart China?
Sometimes the "What if the Byzantines won Stalingrad?" threads get old, so we ask what would happen if China was disunited to switch things up. ;)

There have been attempts (on this website) to design a perfectly balanced divided China. I'll see if I can link one of them up.

EDIT: https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...d-china-post-yuan.399245/page-5#post-13233476
Very interesting map, actually might deserve a thread of its own.
 
Permanently, no, but extended periods, sure. It happened during the Warring States, Three Kingdoms Era and the Jin-Song period. Problem with that is that, as others pointed out, the idea of the Mandate of Heaven as a unifying force for China is already too strong by the Han Dynasty. All you can do is maintain an equilibrium of rival dynasties (or rival states for Post 1900s) by then.
 
Permanently, no, but extended periods, sure. It happened during the Warring States, Three Kingdoms Era and the Jin-Song period. Problem with that is that, as others pointed out, the idea of the Mandate of Heaven as a unifying force for China is already too strong by the Han Dynasty. All you can do is maintain an equilibrium of rival dynasties (or rival states for Post 1900s) by then.
Before the Han dynasty, tovarish. ;)
 
Anyways, does the geography affect the power balance in OTL China which makes large, centralized states ultra-plausible?
 
I´d argue you can divide China up to the 20th century, really. In a different fashion though as you later on(ideological more than ethnical or religious/philosophical reasons)

To divide China is to create bloodshed, and in vast amounts.
Not particularly different than IOTL, not more than every dynastical change creates. The fact most changes are caused by famines, peasants uprisings and all out fighting for a decade or so is not going to be that different from what Europe suffered.

Very possible, especially noting the N/S Dynasties. You'd need to avoid sinicization, as well as the drive to unite China. Hence, why I'd argue that it's easiest to permanently (Assuming no world government) divide China through a POD in the Zhou dynasty, where the seeds for an imperial China was sowed.
Why? Why do you need to avoid sinicization? You had half of Europe latinized, didn´t change much.
Permanently, no, but extended periods, sure. It happened during the Warring States, Three Kingdoms Era and the Jin-Song period. Problem with that is that, as others pointed out, the idea of the Mandate of Heaven as a unifying force for China is already too strong by the Han Dynasty. All you can do is maintain an equilibrium of rival dynasties (or rival states for Post 1900s) by then.
The idea of Roman Empire existed in Europe as well, didn´t help. I´d guess the idea of the Caliph as well, but I could be totally wrong there.
Anyways, does the geography affect the power balance in OTL China which makes large, centralized states ultra-plausible?
Only to a certain extent, the North Chinese plain contains a lot of the demographic force that makes usually the controller of it the controller of the rest.
Very interesting map, actually might deserve a thread of its own.
Thanks, in a way the entire thread was around the creation of it. XD
 
That's why!
Actually,a more potent combination would be getting Guangzhong(the region around Chang'an) and Sichuan.The saying in ancient times was actually the one who gets Guangzhong gets all the land under Heaven.The ones that obtains Guangzhong and Sichuan were often able to defeat the forces that controls the North Chinese Plain.This is because Sichuan is an extremely wealthy province that could provide a lot of food supply and taxes while Guangzhong is an area that traditionally breeds extremely good soldiers.These two regions are also surrounded by mountains--making them highly defensible.
 
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Actually,a more potent combination would be getting Guangzhong(the region around Chang'an) and Sichuan.The saying in ancient times was actually the one who gets Guangzhong gets all the land under Heaven.The ones that obtains Guangzhong and Sichuan were often able to defeat the forces that controls the North Chinese Plain.This is because Sichuan is an extremely wealthy province that could provide a lot of food supply and taxes while Guangzhong is an area that traditionally breeds extremely good soldiers.These two regions are also surrounded by mountains--making them highly defensible.

Maybe if you can make Perfidious Albion carve a state out as a sphere of influence in the Opium Wars, it could work. I mean, OTL is a very good example, after a century of British rule and then 20 years of slowly deteriorating Sino-Cantonese relations.
 
You'd need to avoid sinicization, as well as the drive to unite China. Hence, why I'd argue that it's easiest to permanently (Assuming no world government) divide China through a POD in the Zhou dynasty, where the seeds for an imperial China was sowed.

Why? Why do you need to avoid sinicization? You had half of Europe latinized, didn´t change much.
I think he's referring to direct Sinicization.
 
Maybe if you can make Perfidious Albion carve a state out as a sphere of influence in the Opium Wars, it could work. I mean, OTL is a very good example, after a century of British rule and then 20 years of slowly deteriorating Sino-Cantonese relations.
Guangdong as extended version of British HK?
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However, the only problem is the status of both Macau and Leizhou Peninsula.
 
Maybe if you can make Perfidious Albion carve a state out as a sphere of influence in the Opium Wars, it could work. I mean, OTL is a very good example, after a century of British rule and then 20 years of slowly deteriorating Sino-Cantonese relations.
Well, the Cantonese are Chinese. You'd mean Han-Cantonese relations.
 
Tangent: a divided China might mean a Japonized East China Sea coast (and possibly a different name for the sea :p)
 
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