Is a Nazi victory scenario a Germanwank or not?

Title. I mean with obvious Nazi economic mismanagment and their racial policies leading to a massive 'Vietnam' to their east and Hitler's insane building plans, Germany'll go bankrupt and the Reich wil break up in a few decades. Sure, they've got a big empire and it will likely be bigger than OTL's Germany even after the Reich falls apart, but this will leave a bunch of ex-occupees surrounding them...

This is of course assuming that Stalin doesn't come back for a second round.

Discuss ;).
 
Depends really on the scenario of the victory. I mean, we could have something where the west never joined the war, Hitler was assassinated beforehand and replaced with someone smarter, and all kinds of various other things. You can't just say 'zomg, dey collapse lolol" when it all depends on just how they won and what shape they were in.
 
Well, I'm sure someone can make a Nazi win out of that, although perhaps a better one would be Chamberlain deciding to suck up to Hitler one more time over Poland, but then again we must bear in mind that isn't inconcievable, given that Hitler wouldn't last very long following '45 unless his health really improved, that we may see some reforms regarding economy and internal management in the reich. Of course, it could go the other way and they're fucked.
 
I believe Hitler's bad health was partially caused by stress due to the war.

And indeed, they can reform. It depends on who succeedss Hitler. By 1945-1950 the SS will be very strong andf either Himmler or Heydrich could make a bid for power. I suppose the combo of Goering and Goebbels could try to although I don't think they'll win. Bormann and Hess are out unfortunately for them.
 
the nazi's with a committment to winning the war in the west first and even a medium rationalization of the war economy could win. post fall of france germany could have committed immense air and ground assets in the mediteranian theater while trying to be not to antogonistic to the united states. germany could have very easily committed 10 divisions which could have overrun all of north africa and then as events developed sent additional resources to occupy the middle east. one could safely assume this would compel the british to seek negotions. even if their total committment ended up being 25 divisions in the theater they still could have built an immense defensive line on their prebarbarossa line studded with anti tank, anti air cannons, pill boxes and machine gun emplacements that could have deterred soviet aggression

all this would require is hitler seeing the west as his main enemy (he did have bouts of this thought from time to time..... sending critical resources to tunisia during the battle of stalingrad or committing his entire armored reserve in the averanches offensive or the battle of the bulge or calling off the kursk offensive at a critical moment to send the ss corps to italy)
 
A German long term victory was technically possible in real time history, but not one lead and ruled by the NSDAP of Hitler and co. All depended on wether or not Hitler and his National Socialists were removed from the political and miltary scene, possibly replaced as early as 1938 by a military dictarorship, lead by the old aristocratic Wehrmacht high ranking officers, schooled by the old Imperial German/Pruisian Academy.

The National Socialist leadership was quite incompotent in economic affairs and supported internal competition between party officials and other top figures, rather than having a sollid economic plan to do something about the economy itself. Too much attention was focused on short term things, such as the huge unemployement in the beginning and mass armament production in the late 30's. No real long term economic decissions were taken, such as to reform the industry to produce other more complicated endproducts, rather than only crude products, mainly needed by the military only. Internal public consumption had to be increased, or all would come to nothing in the end.

Unter a leadership of a more educated military leader, Germany could have altered its destiny, by not starting WW2 with the invasion of Polland, but by seeking alternative ways to reclaim its former eastern land, first negotiating out hostilities in the West, mainly against France and the UK. Technicaly it was possible, if the Germans could be kept patient and possibly provocing Soviet Agression first, such as against Finland. With a possible back up by the Western Allies, a non-National Socialist government could possibly get more territorial claims later, even if a more prepared USSR would be faced. Soviet military leadership had been eliminated before by Stalin, so the Red Army was quite unprepared for years and not commanded by able or experienced commanders, since no real grandscale war had been given to them to gain experience.
 
I agree with that...

A German victory (although what do you mean by victory? All the territorial demands that Germany had in the 30's, I assume...) is possible.

A Nazi victory is not.
 
I agree with that...

A German victory (although what do you mean by victory? All the territorial demands that Germany had in the 30's, I assume...) is possible.

A Nazi victory is not.

A Nazi victory in an ATL war is concievable under specific circumstances like I outlined above. Do you mean that a long-term Reich is not possible?
 
Seeing as there is now a boot on a German face for decades I don't see how it could be. Also when it collapses the revenge taken by enslaved peoples at the end of WW2 will seem polite. Also if the Soviet Union remains somewhat intact (the whole idea of them being pushed to the Urals is pretty implausible) it will get nukes eventually and and a Soviet/Nazi cold war is going to inevitably lead to nuclear warfare.
 
Seeing as there is now a boot on a German face for decades I don't see how it could be. Also when it collapses the revenge taken by enslaved peoples at the end of WW2 will seem polite. Also if the Soviet Union remains somewhat intact (the whole idea of them being pushed to the Urals is pretty implausible) it will get nukes eventually and and a Soviet/Nazi cold war is going to inevitably lead to nuclear warfare.

In the event of a Nazi victory, the Soviets having the facilities to properly make nukes is fairly doubtful. Even if they have the research, the funding, the plants, and the extraction is another thing. And even then, delivery will be a problem--bombing campaigns won't be difficult for the Nazis, as the Luftwaffe retained air superiority for a while on the eastern front in OTL anyway.
 
In the event of a Nazi victory, the Soviets having the facilities to properly make nukes is fairly doubtful. Even if they have the research, the funding, the plants, and the extraction is another thing. And even then, delivery will be a problem--bombing campaigns won't be difficult for the Nazis, as the Luftwaffe retained air superiority for a while on the eastern front in OTL anyway.

Well it all depends when the Nazis win and then what the terms of their victory are. If it's similar to Brest Litovsk with peace in 1941/1942 then the Soviets might beat them to it, after all they have Fuchs and Stalin was all for an Atomic Bomb but new that the Soviets would have to wait till after the war when they could afford to build one. On the other hand Hitler had little interest in Atomic energy and the Nazis had 2 separate underfunded programs ( one focused solely on nuclear energy, the other focused on a relatively feeble 1 Kiloton bomb compared to Hiroshima and Nagasaki and a party popper compared to the bombs of the later Cold War) which got nowhere ( The only inkling of them possibly going in the right direction was traces in Radiation in the Gottow area of Germany where Kurt Diebners 1T bomb project was based, suggesting that they might have got the reactor online in early 1945 but thats all speculation and relies mainly on a letter from one of the scientists there) they also had no spies on the Manhattan project which was going in the right direction unlike the Soviets.

If the Manhattan project goes ahead then the Soviets will almost certainly get the bomb first and whilst the Nazis will likely be able to counter with a similar bomb at some point (presuming Japan is still bombed) the Soviets will not waste time in launching a nuclear/conventional revenge invasion.
 
As you say, it depends, but if the Nazis succeed militarily at least in Western Russia, which is certainly within the realms of possibility, gaining an atomic bomb will be the least of Soviet concerns. In fact, it's not guaranteed that Stalin will even continue to rule.
 
A Nazi victory is a Naziwank. Germany will get reamed in the long term rather than the short term. I agree with the posters who suggest a Germanowank is possible, but not with Hitler.
 
Depends on what you mean by "Victory". A Nazi victory over the combined forces of the USSR, UK, and USA leading to the destruction or occupation of these nations is a defnite wank. A German victory over Britain or the USSR individually in the 1940-42 time-frame is definitelywithin the realm of plausibility, as long as this does not require the UK or USSR to be entirely conquered. Much more depends on what the Allies think and do than what Germany is able to acheive militarily. As long as none of the the allies seek a separate peace and they continue to aim for unconditional surrender, Germany simply cannot win.
 
I've always found a Nazi victory in WWII to be severely implausible, close to ASB, for a wide variety of reasons - not the least of which is Nazi ideology itself. In any case, even if by some black miracle they did manage to create their Eurasian hell-state, I feel that the resulting alt-Cold War with the US would be much more likely to end in a nuclear conflict.

A German victory, OTOH - that is, a Germany run by someone smarter, more pragmatic and less genocidal - is quite doable. That one could be made into a wank or not, depending on how it is handled.
 
Okay, we'll assume a post-fall of France PoD (and Hitler doesn't get assassinated).

Then it's a wank. Hitler bungled at every opportunity. If he lives, Germany has no chance. Do something interesting. Have one of the (numerous!) attempts on his life succeed. (A couple came mighty close...)
 
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