Is a Napoleonic victory possible?

Is it possible for Napoleon to consolidate his Empire and have Britain accept his hegemony in the continent?
Napoleon failed to be seen as a liberator but a foreign monarch tyrant in the eyes of many common people in an age were nationalism emerged for the first time( like in the German states). So this people wouldn'd accept his hegemony.
Spain was a mess and bound many ressources and soldiers. Reactionary statesmen like Fürst Metternicht wouldn"t accept a Bonaparte hegemony and would seek any oppurtunity to end it. Nevertheless Russia was obviously the beginning of the end.( I don't contribute any new facts but maybe this is even inaccurate?). Could it be that the later Napoleon's political instinct wasn't that sharp anymore ?
 
It's more than possible. Just have him avoid the Peninsular War, and he probably would have won with hundreds of thousands of soldiers from there freed up to move elsewhere.

In my opinion, people tend to exaggerate Napoleon's crazy plans and his inability to stop as part of the historiographical narrative that he was an evil tyrant who tried to conquer the "innocent" monarchies of Europe.
 

longsword14

Banned
Metternich was all about keeping Hapsburg interests, which could easily mean dividing central Europe between the two parties.
All it needed was for Napoleon to be willing to climb down from a situation of complete strength after he had walloped another kingdom.
Spain is avoided, and Britain cannot fund another round if there are no takers.
 
It's more than possible. Just have him avoid the Peninsular War, and he probably would have won with hundreds of thousands of soldiers from there freed up to move elsewhere.

In my opinion, people tend to exaggerate Napoleon's crazy plans and his inability to stop as part of the historiographical narrative that he was an evil tyrant who tried to conquer the "innocent" monarchies of Europe.

I always assumed that came from British historiography that didn't want to consider the possibility that they might possibly lose a war with France.
 

longsword14

Banned
I always assumed that came from British historiography that didn't want to consider the possibility that they might possibly lose a war with France.
British historiography tends to see wars with France while forgetting the rest of Europe.
 
Napoleon could have kept his Empire together had he avoided the debacle in Russia. That created an opportunity for his subjugated European allies to rise against him. He could have absolutely crushed Wellington in Spain, and continued the continental system which would have eventually became more effective especially when he regained the capacity to challenge the United Kingdom navally. There wasn't really much the United Kingdom could do without him losing the hundreds of thousands of men in Russia like he did previously, if the Russians try to invade Europe on their own they would end up slaughtered. Napoleon was pretty popular with a lot of the people he liberated.

Napoleon ends up perishing in the late 1820's/early 1830's handing power to one of his sons. Depending on the capacity of that son the Empire either becomes focused on his successors talents, or more oligarchic.
 
I believe a napoleonic victory at Leipzig (1813) is the latest PoD one can use for a napoleonic survival. Napoleon could sue for a negotiated conditional peace with that.
While it doesn't count as a napoleonic victory south of the Pyrenees and east of the Elbe, it is enough to keep France intact. Plus, Napoleon would have learned from his defeats at Russia and Spain by that point.
 

Schnozzberry

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Personally, I think the best point for Napoleon to keep a stable empire would be with the Treaty of Amiens not breaking down. If Napoleon didn't annex the Cisalpine Republic, and occupy the Helvetic Republic, he would have been able to consolidate control over a decently sized empire.
 
If Napoleon didn't annex the Cisalpine Republic, and occupy the Helvetic Republic

He did neither. He was elected President of Italy in 1802, and became King of Italy in 1805; he reorganized the Helvetic Republic into the Swiss Confederation and became its Mediator in 1802.

What he did is to annex Holland and parts of Westphalia and Berg in 1810, even if all these countries were his own vassal states.
 
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You know, i've been wondering...
What happens to Dutch Indonesia and the Spanish Philippines in case of a napoleonic victory?
 
You know, i've been wondering...
What happens to Dutch Indonesia and the Spanish Philippines in case of a napoleonic victory?

Dutch Indonesia is either British or (French-allied) Dutch, depending on whether the POD is before or after the British invasion of Java.
 

Perkeo

Banned
Napoleon failed to be seen as a liberator but a foreign monarch tyrant in the eyes of many common people in an age were nationalism emerged for the first time( like in the German states). So this people wouldn'd accept his hegemony.
He only half failed in the German states since AFAIK he was seen as a liberator and a foreign monarch tyrant. He'd have had to divide and conquer by selling himself as the warrant for civil rights and economic modernization and in return demand that nationalism be restricted to the member states - which would have had to be larger. I suggest:
- an essentially untouched Habsburg Empire,
- Bavaria,
- Prussia,
- Saxony,
- Westphalia,
- Hessia,
- Württemberg,
- Baden.

The decision to half-abolish Kleinstaaterei was his cardnal error, since it made the German states large enough to act as players, but too small to credibly call themselves nations.

Spain was a mess and bound many ressources and soldiers. Reactionary statesmen like Fürst Metternicht wouldn"t accept a Bonaparte hegemony and would seek any oppurtunity to end it. Nevertheless Russia was obviously the beginning of the end.( I don't contribute any new facts but maybe this is even inaccurate?). Could it be that the later Napoleon's political instinct wasn't that sharp anymore ?
IMO the problem was that - at some time - he had to switch from expansion to consolidation.
 
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