Is a Jewish Autonomous Oblast possible earlier in history?

I was reading about the JAO and wondering if it would have been possible or likely for the Tsars to have not done the pogroms, but just sent all the Jew to a particular place, as happened later.
 
The Tsars were the head of the orthodox church, they considered themselves as christian rulers, so it's quite unlikely until enlightened emperors like Peter or Catherine the Great.

Anyway, the oblast should be formed not of some remote and underdeveloped land in Siberia, but of fertile and profitable land of Ukraine, to attract Jews from all parts of the world - Jews of Russia would be forced to live there by law, to ensure that there is a sufficient population base in the future Jewish "paradise". Maybe a port should be added to the oblast, to attract Jewish merchants negotiating in the Black See and the Mediterranean.

The oblast would have to be really autonomous with a new Jewish Sanhedrin, a Jewish police (against new progroms), maybe also with a new temple (the new centre of Judaism).

If established properly, such an autonomous Jewisch county would flourish and fill the coffers of the Russian state.
 
I was playing around with the Russians rsserving the city od Odessa and the region around Brest Litovsk for the Jews. Brest later could enjoy autonomy under Pilsudkis Poland... With less fanatical NSDAP , Hitler might just send all German Jews to southwest Belarus and Odessa region (although their welfare would sink dramatically. .)
 
The Tsars were the head of the orthodox church, they considered themselves as christian rulers, so it's quite unlikely until enlightened emperors like Peter or Catherine the Great.

Anyway, the oblast should be formed not of some remote and underdeveloped land in Siberia, but of fertile and profitable land of Ukraine, to attract Jews from all parts of the world - Jews of Russia would be forced to live there by law, to ensure that there is a sufficient population base in the future Jewish "paradise". Maybe a port should be added to the oblast, to attract Jewish merchants negotiating in the Black See and the Mediterranean.

The oblast would have to be really autonomous with a new Jewish Sanhedrin, a Jewish police (against new progroms), maybe also with a new temple (the new centre of Judaism).

If established properly, such an autonomous Jewisch county would flourish and fill the coffers of the Russian state.
Yes, but the Ukrainians and Russians would react poorly to being expelled, particularly by Jewish peoples. Its unlikely that the Tsars would choose the latter over the former. If the Tsars ever decided to make a purely Jewish region, it would almost certainly be in Kazakhstan or Siberia. They could be a bit more generous than Stalin (though anti-semetism was just as strong, if not stronger, then) and allot a larger swath of land near say lake Baikal, but they would not depopulate western Russia/Ukraine.
 
Yes, but the Ukrainians and Russians would react poorly to being expelled, particularly by Jewish peoples. Its unlikely that the Tsars would choose the latter over the former. If the Tsars ever decided to make a purely Jewish region, it would almost certainly be in Kazakhstan or Siberia. They could be a bit more generous than Stalin (though anti-semetism was just as strong, if not stronger, then) and allot a larger swath of land near say lake Baikal, but they would not depopulate western Russia/Ukraine.

Except if they are expelling muslim population of the Crimean Khanate, population which could be perceived as illoyal and therefore be replaced by Jews.
 
The Jewish Autonomous Oblast did not exist in a vacuum. Though it's probably the most famous because, hey, Jews, it was established during a period in which the Soviet Union had embraced the concept of "ethnic republics". For example, all of the Central Asian -stans were theoretically created as "ethnic homelands" for the Uzbeks, Kazakhs, etc (in practice, the borders were drawn in some very specific ways to ensure that none of them was too ethnically unified, but the idea existed). There also existed (and largely still exist) some 20-odd autonomous republic, autonomous oblasts, and autonomous okrugs, all of which were established for a specific ethnicity/nationality (Soviet theory wasn't entirely clear on which), for such diverse peoples as the Chechens, the Volga Germans, the Poles, the Komi...

Now, I guess it's theoretically possible for the Tsars to do something like this - they practiced a sort of benign neglect over a lot of these regions anyway, since they decided that the paltry taxes of these mostly very poor areas (the whole reason that the regions were still dominated by ethnic minorities was usually because they were too marginal for Russians to want to move there) wasn't worth the dead tax collectors. But formalizing any kind of regional autonomy seems to be at odds with the autocratic and absolutist tendencies of St Petersburg through most of the last few hundred years before the Revolution.
 
Why would the notoriously antisemitic Tsarists give the Jews the fertile parts of Ukraine or south Siberia? I'd more expect them to give the Jews the OTL Jewish Autonomous Oblast or if earlier in history before that land was taken from China, somewhere else in the Russian Far East.
 
Well, I'm planning a TL about such a thing, in which Russia forces the Qing to secede all of Manchuria, and then expelling the ethics Chinese and later setting up a Jewish colony
 
Well, I'm planning a TL about such a thing, in which Russia forces the Qing to secede all of Manchuria, and then expelling the ethics Chinese and later setting up a Jewish colony

Manchuria was very fertile land plus had Vladivostok which was key to Russian ambitions. Not likely they'd get the whole thing. Also, Inner Manchuria was rather well-populated, so you'd be expelling a huge amount of people (both Chinese and ethnic Manchu).

hmm how about alaskaya that become the Jewish Oblast?

Interesting concept. But I couldn't imagine how many Jews would die on the way to Alaska, since they'd basically have to deport them there. Wait, knowing the Tsarists, that would probably be the point. Kill a huge chunk of your Jews, and put the rest in a wilderness to get something out of there besides fur. It also would secure Russian claims to Alaska, and maybe even allow them to push further east and south into North America.
 
hmm how about alaskaya that become the Jewish Oblast?

Imagine Israel in Alaska ... With these masses of oil! A Jewish Alaska might become a major economic power in the 20th century, and maybe declare its independence from the antisemitic, backward tsarists. This independence war in turn might trigger either a revolution in Russia (liberal or socialist), or/and a world war opposing the allies of Russia and the supporters of Alaska.
 
Manchuria was very fertile land plus had Vladivostok which was key to Russian ambitions. Not likely they'd get the whole thing. Also, Inner Manchuria was rather well-populated, so you'd be expelling a huge amount of people (both Chinese and ethnic Manchu).

At the time of the annexation it had a population between 2-5 million and most of the inhabitants were not Han Chinese, at the same time the Jewish population of Russia was about 2 million at the time.
 
Alaska is way too far and Manchuria way too important. My best bet is to "trail of tears" all Jews in small-ish Polish-speaking area and give it some ridiculous amount of autonomy. Divide and conquer.
 
At the time of the annexation it had a population between 2-5 million and most of the inhabitants were not Han Chinese, at the same time the Jewish population of Russia was about 2 million at the time.

2 million Jews aren't all going to make it alive across Siberia when the Tsar and his goons are watching them every step of the way. Indian Removal had about 20-25% death tolls (could have been higher). Here you have far bigger numbers in a far bigger country with harsher climate and arguably even more hostile population. I guess you'd move them in waves, but each wave is going to have very, very high casualties, and probably at least 600,000 deaths total. Thus, Jews will still be in a minority in Manchuria.
 
Imagine Israel in Alaska ... With these masses of oil! A Jewish Alaska might become a major economic power in the 20th century, and maybe declare its independence from the antisemitic, backward tsarists. This independence war in turn might trigger either a revolution in Russia (liberal or socialist), or/and a world war opposing the allies of Russia and the supporters of Alaska.
Alaska has potential, but at the time it couldn't possibly support the million plus Jewish people the Russian empire had even pre 1860. Transport would be expensive and/or dangerous. Any Alaskan settlement project is going to have a very dark history. I still say Siberia or Kazakhstan is more likely because the Tsars didn't have much immediate use for it outside fur trapping and potentially trade with the far east. Development only really took of during the Soviet era, so the empire would probably think little of allotting some of it to the Jews. Not that Siberia is much safer than Alaska, but it could at least support the population.
 
hmm how about alaskaya that become the Jewish Oblast?
But why?

The question isn't "Where would the Tsars put a Jewish autonomous dealie?", it's "Why would the Tsars do that?" Frankly, most Russians were happy enough with the Jews in the Pale; while a lot of the Poles, Ukrainians, Belorussians, and Lithuanians weren't so bullish on the idea, the Russian nobility mostly didn't care what they thought.

Again, there's no precedent for Tsarist Russia establishing this kind of arrangement (in contrast with the USSR)
 
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