Is a Franco-British-German alliance plausible?

Say that WW1 never happens and we get to the late 1920s with no conflicts in Europe. However in this time the USSR begins to expand and Western Europe begins to get a little scared. Also assume that with no WW1 the US stays isolationist and basically keeps to themselves on their side of the Atlantic. In this scenario would it be plausible for there to be a warming of relations between the UK, France, and Germany and possibly even an alliance between them to counter a more aggressive and expansionist Soviet Union? Or is the tension between them just never going to disappear without a war?

If this is plausible, could it perhaps lead to an earlier European Union to counter Soviet influence in Europe?
 
Say that WW1 never happens

I think the sticking point for most people is how in this instance do you get a USSR?

The October Revolution only succeeded because the war had drained loyal regiments at the front and brought an influx of conscripts into the ranks of the units stationed in St Petersburg which lacked sufficient cadre to keep them under control.
 
Say that WW1 never happens and we get to the late 1920s with no conflicts in Europe. However in this time the USSR begins to expand and Western Europe begins to get a little scared. Also assume that with no WW1 the US stays isolationist and basically keeps to themselves on their side of the Atlantic. In this scenario would it be plausible for there to be a warming of relations between the UK, France, and Germany and possibly even an alliance between them to counter a more aggressive and expansionist Soviet Union? Or is the tension between them just never going to disappear without a war?

If this is plausible, could it perhaps lead to an earlier European Union to counter Soviet influence in Europe?

If you replace the words "Soviet Union" (I agree with everyone saying that no WWI=no USSR) with "Russian Empire" then maybe. Britain always seeks to counterbalance whatever power looks to be the most likely to dominate the continent, and if Russia was looking like they would supplant Germany in that respect (and there is some reason to believe this would have been the case), then Anglo-German rapprochement becomes quite possible, even likely. Getting the French on board with that is harder as they still have the Alsace-Lorraine unfinished business with the Germans, it's more likely they would drift away from the British into the Russian camp.
 
I will go out on the limb and say "plausible" even if improbable, but you have a lot of groundwork to do, the changes will be subtle and the effects potentially enormous. First I do not think you get the USSR, instead you get some far-left dominated revolutionary government. So that alone is significant. Next the alliance.

In 1915 you have a British election and the Liberals likely lose, the Conservatives will not be any more pro-German but they will likely get things rather messy trying to unravel Irish Home rule. I doubt the Anglo-French understanding lasts long without Grey and others holding to it. Russia was the up and coming power that by 1916 likely looks more menacing to the other powers, Britain especially. Even the french may come to feel too ill at ease being allied to the autocratic proto-Super Power. My understanding is that the Socialists were leaning to rapprochement with Germany. That is a long way from an alliance but you only need to plant the seeds and give it some favorable breaks over time to argue for a very different thinking in a decade or so. Let us assume that an Anglo-German naval treaty results out of a Moroccan Crisis, that the averted war with France cracks into the frosty relations and the Albanian Crisis goes far closer to the brink with the Czar playing more openly aggressive. If you dare have the assassination of FF go forward but links to Russia surface early enough that it averts war but discredits Russia. Now have the Russians seek openly round two with Japan. That puts Britain and Russia back into opposition, France is no longer poised for war and Germany is the best counter weight to the Russian juggernaut. Assuming Nicholas lives as long as Wilhelm II you have him running things to at least 1941? Give the crazy Monk some more influence, a failed palace coup against him, a failed war versus Japan or even solely versus Germany (maybe with A-H) and you have the possibility of a revolution as Russia has seen in past lost wars aftermath. And I do not think the USA is isolationist, rather it will hold to the Monroe Doctrine, turn its nose at Europe and be right in the thick of Chinese machinations. It should be a better friend for France all things considered but both Britain and Germany will command strong cultural ties too. A wacky sort of world this one.
 
I think this would be more plausible if WW1 did happen, but the poles lost the Polish-Soviet War and got incorporated into the USSR.

The Entente would support an alliance with Weimar Germany if they bordered a much larger Soviet Union.
 
I think this would be more plausible if WW1 did happen, but the poles lost the Polish-Soviet War and got incorporated into the USSR.

The Entente would support an alliance with Weimar Germany if they bordered a much larger Soviet Union.

This would also be more plausible w/ a left leaning US that became closely aligned with the USSR. If there is a naval threat to their colonies and supply lines it'd encourage western european unity, and they'd need a continental ally as they would have to divert significant resources away from the land front towards the naval/colonial war.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
This would also be more plausible w/ a left leaning US that became closely aligned with the USS
Among the leftmost factions in the US, the only group that actually had a chance to win the election was the Bull Moose, and they were also anti-Communist.

The Socialists are not going to win anything under Electoral College and with the existence of Jim Crow.
 
A France-German Alliance is an impossibility.

A scenario where the War is delayed, where Britain fears Russian encroachment on India, and where Germany fears Russian industrialisation means you end up with Britain + Germany + Austria-Hungary vs France + Russia.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
In 1915 you have a British election and the Liberals likely lose, the Conservatives will not be any more pro-German but they will likely get things rather messy trying to unravel Irish Home rule.
Depends. The conservatives must win more seats than those of Liberals, Labour and IPP combined. If the Conservatives only win 300 seats, they would still lose.[/QUOTE]
 
What about if the USSR or a socialist/communist equivalent had formed out of the 1905 revolution? Essentially it's similar in a way to the OTL revolution as it happened after a relatively humiliating defeat in a war (althought the 1905 revolution had been simmering since before the Russo-Japanese War). I agree that the biggest hurdle to overcome is the Franco-German rivalry that had literally been going on for centuries but I think that if the Russians/Soviets (or whoever takes power in the former Russian Empire) became a new, stronger, more powerful common enemy for both the French and German Empires, then most of their issues could be ironed out.
 
There was a video by the Alternatehistory Hub guy about how if Trotsky came to power, he would be more aggressive internationally with supporting communist movements and eventually Trotsky would invade Germany, which will cause the west to defend/ally with Germany even if it still was fascist.

In my view though, his vids seem to be a bit too simple and too open ended and limited to one possibility instead of other potential routes.
 

Deleted member 94680

If you replace the words "Soviet Union" (I agree with everyone saying that no WWI=no USSR) with "Russian Empire" then maybe. Britain always seeks to counterbalance whatever power looks to be the most likely to dominate the continent, and if Russia was looking like they would supplant Germany in that respect (and there is some reason to believe this would have been the case), then Anglo-German rapprochement becomes quite possible, even likely. Getting the French on board with that is harder as they still have the Alsace-Lorraine unfinished business with the Germans, it's more likely they would drift away from the British into the Russian camp.

An Anglo-Franco-German alliance would be far stronger than the Russian Empire. Although British policy was to counterbalance the strongest power/alliance on the continent, it wasn't to become the strongest power on the continent. Balance is the key.
 
An Anglo-Franco-German alliance would be far stronger than the Russian Empire. Although British policy was to counterbalance the strongest power/alliance on the continent, it wasn't to become the strongest power on the continent. Balance is the key.

I don't disagree, what I'm saying is that getting all three of those into one alliance isn't going to happen for both that reason and the fact that Anglo-German rapprochement would probably alienate the French.
 
A France-German Alliance is an impossibility.

A scenario where the War is delayed, where Britain fears Russian encroachment on India, and where Germany fears Russian industrialisation means you end up with Britain + Germany + Austria-Hungary vs France + Russia.

Nonsense! The new government installed after France surrenders will ally with whoever England and Germany tell them to... /eyeroll
 
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