Is a Anglo Dutch Union possible?

The problem with using a William and Mary POD should be quite obvious: the Stadtholdership wasn't hereditary. The various provinces of the Netherlands were under no obligation to elect William's ATL son as Stadtholder and in reality would be very much against it. Everyone's forgetting the deep commercial and naval rivalry that existed between England and the Netherlands in the 1600s.

The Dutch lost more commercially and economically (the bank of England becoming more dominant at the expense of Amsterdam's financial institutions) then they gained under William's duel reign so no realistic chance of a continuing union. The Dutch would either elect a second son as Stadtholder or go through another Stadtholderless period.

Me personally I think the best opportunity for a union would be Philip II of Spain and Mary I of England. The marriage contract stated that a son would inherit both England and the Netherlands (in this case the whole Low countries), so make Mary never have cancer and there you go. She'd probably have a kid and live long enough (her mother's family was fairly long-lived) to cement Catholicism in England. With England as a base and the naval route clear Spain should be able to successfully repress the Dutch rebellion.

The other POD mentioned, a marriage between the future William II of the Netherlands and Princess Charlotte Augusta of Wales, is impossible. The marriage contract specifically stated that Britain would go to the couple's oldest son, while the second son would inherit the Netherlands; if there was only one son, the Netherlands would pass to the German branch of the House of Orange. Really in my opinion the Mary/Philip POD is the best possible one.
 
The problem with using a William and Mary POD should be quite obvious: the Stadtholdership wasn't hereditary. The various provinces of the Netherlands were under no obligation to elect William's ATL son as Stadtholder and in reality would be very much against it. Everyone's forgetting the deep commercial and naval rivalry that existed between England and the Netherlands in the 1600s.

The Dutch lost more commercially and economically (the bank of England becoming more dominant at the expense of Amsterdam's financial institutions) then they gained under William's duel reign so no realistic chance of a continuing union. The Dutch would either elect a second son as Stadtholder or go through another Stadtholderless period.

Me personally I think the best opportunity for a union would be Philip II of Spain and Mary I of England. The marriage contract stated that a son would inherit both England and the Netherlands (in this case the whole Low countries), so make Mary never have cancer and there you go. She'd probably have a kid and live long enough (her mother's family was fairly long-lived) to cement Catholicism in England. With England as a base and the naval route clear Spain should be able to successfully repress the Dutch rebellion.

The other POD mentioned, a marriage between the future William II of the Netherlands and Princess Charlotte Augusta of Wales, is impossible. The marriage contract specifically stated that Britain would go to the couple's oldest son, while the second son would inherit the Netherlands; if there was only one son, the Netherlands would pass to the German branch of the House of Orange. Really in my opinion the Mary/Philip POD is the best possible one.
The problem with this POD is that England can not defeat the Dutch revolt and is likely to have ots own problems with English protestants. Also Philip would no doubt rule from Spain and I think the English will see it more or less as a foreign occupation and cause its own problems.

Personaly I think aal Anglo-Dutch unions are pretty unlikely, but I think the queen Elizabeth accepts the Dutch crowns as the most likely (although she needs someone better than Leicester to send to the Netherlands, he screwed up big time). Also the offer from Cromwell has some potential, although you need a different political/diplomatic situation. Maybe a larger thread from Spain (or maybe france, probably too early for it).
 
The problem with this POD is that England can not defeat the Dutch revolt and is likely to have ots own problems with English protestants. Also Philip would no doubt rule from Spain and I think the English will see it more or less as a foreign occupation and cause its own problems.

Personaly I think aal Anglo-Dutch unions are pretty unlikely, but I think the queen Elizabeth accepts the Dutch crowns as the most likely (although she needs someone better than Leicester to send to the Netherlands, he screwed up big time). Also the offer from Cromwell has some potential, although you need a different political/diplomatic situation. Maybe a larger thread from Spain (or maybe france, probably too early for it).

I wouldn't be so sure about that. After all the Spanish managed to reconquer and hold the southern half of the Netherlands, which from what I remember (though I could be wrong) was actually more protestant then the north at the time. With no English support (either active or as a place of refuge) the Dutch would be hard pressed. Plus the sea route would be open to resupply the Spanish Army of Flanders. No using the round-the-bout Spanish road, so supplies will arrive quicker.

Not to mention that Queen Mary/ King Henry *(most probable name for a son) would have a dog in this fight as well, as the Netherlands are to pass to England eventually. I think that between the two (and France being neutralized thanks to the religious civil wars) the Habsburgs are in a good position to hold onto the entire Netherlands.

As to the English and foreign occupation, I'm confused. Felipe wouldn't rule England in any event. Best case Mary lives a long life and when she dies the throne passes to her son. Worst case there's a regency council created by Felipe (who was technically made Regent for any of his future children with Mary but functionally its unlikely that he'd move to England for a highly expanded period of time) and probably made up of senior Catholic Peers and Bishops. No foreign government or occupation. (BTW in such a scenario I'm guessing that Elizabeth would either be forced to marry a foreign Prince, like the Duke of Savoy, or perhaps put in a convent).

Finally, to Elizabeth gaining the Dutch throne, its interesting but not realistic long-term. Elizabeth has no children and no close relatives. When she dies who gets the Netherlands? Would the Dutch follow the English succession and enthrone James I & VI or would they look to the House of Orange/ a different Dutch noble family?
 
There was also the inheritance agreement if Philip II and Mary I had a child: he or she would receive both England and the Burgundian lands.

That is an interesting scenario, as it would probably butterfly the Stuarts and a personal union with Scotland. On the other hand, since this would mean a counter-reformation, the Dutch would most likely rebel in this case as well, and they might get help from English protestants. The result of such a rebellion would of course depend on later developments both in England and the Burgundian lands, Probably it would develop into a religious war more than a war between two territories
 
The problem with this POD is that England can not defeat the Dutch revolt and is likely to have ots own problems with English protestants. Also Philip would no doubt rule from Spain and I think the English will see it more or less as a foreign occupation and cause its own problems.

Personaly I think aal Anglo-Dutch unions are pretty unlikely, but I think the queen Elizabeth accepts the Dutch crowns as the most likely (although she needs someone better than Leicester to send to the Netherlands, he screwed up big time). Also the offer from Cromwell has some potential, although you need a different political/diplomatic situation. Maybe a larger thread from Spain (or maybe france, probably too early for it).

Why? Why would the Dutch Republic accept Cromwell's offer, unless it will be the Estates-General determining what Parliament will do. It's not until after stadtholder Willem/William III, that the Dutch Republic is being made clear the Golden Age is over and we're a second tier power. Even our British allies, then under the Hanoverians, royally screwed us over at the peace negotiation tables; the peace of Utrecht may have been in the Netherlands, but it blatantly sold us short.
 
Top